Feynman makes a Bedini Motor

[PMM Dave]

The large voltage spikes create large current spikes according to the celebrated equation:-

V = IR

These spikes are of short duration, so the mean current is, as you say, low. However a large amplitude short duration spike is perfect for damaging a battery! You are correct in your guess that I have never built a Bedini machine. I am guessing that you have never measured the current spikes in one, nor the amount of charge available from the (damaged) battery.

I know that overcharging damages a battery from the manufacturers instructon sheet, from personal experience, and from the experience of others. Trust me, they don't like it up 'em!

I am glad that YOU like my scam, but there is a major problem with it. I don't get to take money from anybody!

But seriously, the burden of proof for an extraordinary claim lies with the claimer. In this case, the exraordinary claim is that more charge goes into the target battery than came out of the source battery. The proof would be very simple - just measure it. Yet neither you nor anybody else on this forum has done so.

So what we have here is an extraordinary claim without any proof whatever, let alone extraordinary proof.

[WilbyInebriated]

i have "tried" to measure them, digital multimeters show random results, analog ammeter shows little to no current. my batteries have never been "damaged" by this process, in fact i have recovered batteries that would no longer accept a battery chargers "charge" and restored a PDA/cellphone battery that would barely run for an hour to minimum of 6 hours use. i know the current is minimal because i can grab the + output in one hand and the - output in the other and i remain among the living.

build one and measure it yourself, they are cheap to build.
another that wants to tell us how to build it but won't do it himself.

yes we do have an "extra ordinary" claim here. that would be you, who has never built a bedini machine "claiming" that a bedini machine damages the battery by overcharging it. without any proof whatever, let alone "extra ordinary" proof.

[PMM Dave]

The way to measure the current pulses is with an oscilloscope, using a current probe. Simply pass the battery wire through the probe and clamp it shut. Then you get the complete current waveform. Be sure to use the type of probe that responds down to DC, otherwise you will not be able to measure the average current. Tektronix make excellent current probes and 'scopes.

A DMM will give random results because sometimes it samples on the pulse, other times on the gap between pulses. An analog meter *should* give the correct average curent, but some meters get confused by large amplitude pulses. Also, you might damage the delicate meter movement. A 'scope is definitely the way to go here.

As to the charge stored in the battery, you need an accurate measurement by discharging it in a controlled manner through a load. Anecdoatal stories about cell phone usage hardly qualify! A Triton battery conditoner, available at any hobby store, will do this just fine.

The observation that you are still alive even though you touched the wires is very gratifying to all of us, I am sure. But it hardly constiutes a scientific measurement of voltage, let alone current!

My claim is not extraordinary. I am simply claiming that overcharging a battery will damage it. Does anybody dispute this? Ordinary claims only require Podunk proof - just go to any battery manufacturer's web site to check this claim out.

[WilbyInebriated]

My claim is not extraordinary. I am simply claiming that overcharging a battery will damage it. Does anybody dispute this? Ordinary claims only require Podunk proof - just go to any battery manufacturer's web site to check this claim out.

i call bullshit here you CLEARLY claimed the bedini was responsible for damaging batteries by overcharging... and i quote

If you look at the instruction sheet that comes with the battery, it usually says that the battery can be damaged by overcharging - and this is exactly what the Bedini machine does.

which IS extra ordinary since you have admitted to NOT having built one...

The way to measure the current pulses is with an oscilloscope, using a current probe. Simply pass the battery wire through the probe and clamp it shut. Then you get the complete current waveform. Be sure to use the type of probe that responds down to DC, otherwise you will not be able to measure the average current. Tektronix make excellent current probes and 'scopes.

A DMM will give random results because sometimes it samples on the pulse, other times on the gap between pulses. An analog meter *should* give the correct average curent, but some meters get confused by large amplitude pulses. Also, you might damage the delicate meter movement. A 'scope is definitely the way to go here.

As to the charge stored in the battery, you need an accurate measurement by discharging it in a controlled manner through a load. Anecdoatal stories about cell phone usage hardly qualify! A Triton battery conditoner, available at any hobby store, will do this just fine.

The observation that you are still alive even though you touched the wires is very gratifying to all of us, I am sure. But it hardly constiutes a scientific measurement of voltage, let alone current!

blah blah please see the second paragraph of my previous post for my suggestions on measurements, scientific or otherwise.
are you suggesting a PDA/cellphone IS NOT a load?
lol, i can't believe you would even say "scientific", you who wont even do the simple experiment...

[Ren]

@ PMM Dave. You are correct in saying that over charging ANY battery will damage it, even if the damage may not be visible at first. And I would even go as far as to say that overcharging a battery with the monopole or other associated circuitry will cause eventual failure too, although I havent yet proved it for myself.

I hope, however, that you are not saying that the use of Bedinis circuit will damage the battery full stop, whether manufactures guidelines are adhered to or not, as I would have to disagree with you there. And yes I have multiple replications that prove the monopole does indeed charge a battery, and is more than capable of over charging it in terms of resting terminal voltage. While I have no scope as to measure my output spike I have confirmed it to be well over 100 volts with a neon bulb.

It should become obvious to anyone who has bothered to study the device that the battery is not being charged in a conventional manner. I have a trifilar monopole which pushes 1000ma quite comfortably on the front end, of which only 100ma reaches the charging source. Both batteries are of the same size and condition (aka new) and yet the charging battery charges up SIGNIFICANTLY faster than it should on that input. The charge stored can be confirmed with repeated load tests, (which I have done) something very few people bother to do. All my results point to the charge battery charging up as well if not better than any conventional charger can manage to do. All of this from an equal voltage source. I can neither confirm nor deny that more charge goes into the charging battery in the simple replications I have done, because as you are probably aware it is quite difficult to measure the storage of a batteries capacity accurately. I can confirm this however.

There is no way the battery should charge that fast with the amount of current that flows into it. And it holds its charge. And it has been holding its charge consistently over a significant time (over 300 load tests). Only time will tell as to whether the battery is slowly being damaged. Oh and by the way, most lead acids, depending on make and model, have a maximum charging voltage of 14.5 and a floating voltage in the low 13's. Like you say its different for every model.

I think we are all getting what you are saying, so perhaps the thread should be directed more towards its original post...

PS Good to see you having a go Feynman. As Im sure you are aware the neos arent ideal. If you have trouble with it try increasing your air gap to reduce saturation of your core. Keep it up.