Science contradicts itself..Questions

[Charlie_V]

Quote

There is a restriction to the types of fields one can use.  The field must radiate outward and return to itself - this really narrows it down! Electric fields only flow in one direction, gravity fields only flow in one direction, nuclear forces possibly only flow in one direction (not really sure about nuclear forces).  The only force that radiates outward yet returns to itself is a magnetic field.

I'm afraid that is not true. In open vacuum (space) pure electrical fields have a similar form as magnetic fields. If you make a wire loop and have current flow through it, it will generate a magnetic field which has an opposite orientation inside the loop to that outside the loop, and these "fold" at the "poles" to form the magnetic field you're talking about. Same thing the other way around: if you make a looped magnetic field, you'll see a similarly
shaped electric field with opposite orientation inside and outside the loop, which "folds" at the "poles".

Actually, the field in a capacitor only goes in a single direction - although they do loop like you said, it is still in the same direction.  Let me draw you the difference. 

Well if we are to believe our professional stargazers there is a seriously unbalanced situation where we clearly see more red shift than blue shift.
The red shift, by the way, does not mean all radiation we observe must be at a specific frequency.

I wonder if it is red shifted in all frequency bands.  They typically only do infrared spectroscopy on stars because that light band yields information on what type of material the stars are made out of.  It would be interesting to see if they have done visible, UV, and maybe X-ray spectroscopy on the stars and see if they still observe a red shift.  I know they take X-ray images of space but that isn't spectroscopy.  An IR image would just show the sky glowing red (since the red shift gets more severe as you get further from the earth).  The sky glows with X-rays too, and other frequencies.  I'm just wondering if the spectrums are also red shifted.

[Charlie_V]

I forgot to add the polarity to the capacitor - like it really matters haha.  The top plate of the capacitor is positively charged, the bottom plate is negative.  The figure on the left is the capacitor, the two figures on the right are magnets (each in a different configuration). 

I came to this conclusion when I was experimenting with homopolar motors.  If you take a cylinder magnet and place half of it in an iron tube, and the iron tube's thickness is much wider than the magnet's diameter, you can get the assembly to spin different directions depending on where you apply the contact.  If you apply the contact to the surface of the magnet it will spin in one direction.  If you apply that same contact to the iron, it will spin in the opposite direction.  This is because the flux through the iron (aka the magnet's external field) is in a different direction from that of the magnet (which when applied to the surface of the magnet utilizes the internal field). 

Electric fields only travel in one direction, from positive to negative.  Yes they loop (and I suppose on the very top they would be in opposite directions) but as it loops around (at the perpendicular point of the dipole) the direction is the same.  At the perpendicular of the magnet, the fields on the outside are reverse of the inside...  Pretty interesting huh?  Makes it almost like the field radiates out one end of the magnet, but returns.  Where as electric fields only radiate away, never to return (by this i mean a positive charge does not have any positive charge return to itself).  Now, if they ever discover a magnetic monopole (which I don't think exists) then things would be different.  But I believe it is the magnet's nature to reach out and touch everything before it returns to itself - they are nature's molesters  !

Also,

and how does that add energy that was not there before, in your view?  After all, and if I understand correctly, you're saying that two identical type force fields at a 90 degree angle can exchange energy with other fields without exchanging energy
with those fields? What energy is being exchanged then, if the energy in the original 2 fields does not decrease?

What 'm saying is that the fields at 90 degree angles become like an energy amplifier.  They boost the energy (or create additional energy) by consuming very little.  They use some energy to produce movement between themselves, and the effects their movement produces are seen greater on outside bodies.  Yet the outside bodies cannot effect their fields.  It takes energy to make energy - which is why I also believe in a divine being. 

260 Gauss of flux change can move a magnet back and forth through the movement of the prime mover.  But moving that magnet back and forth will not cause the prime mover to move.  The prime mover is independent of the magnet but the magnet is dependent on the prime mover.   Only that is a simplified example, because the geometry of the device is screwy, and the movement of that magnet is not anything that would be easily harnessed.  I'm going to make it a generator and place a coil in the region.  So the back torque of the coil will not affect the prime mover, yet the prime mover will drive the coil.  The device I built is rather small, the coils and magnets are too small and it will not power itself.  If things keep looking up, I will build a larger device where the coils' parameters are enough to drive a motor which powers the prime mover.  The motor will not see any back torque from the coil and will run basically with no load.  These are my goals anyway, only time will tell if it goes anywhere - theres still plenty of room for failure.  But so far, the independence of the prime mover to outside forces (in the special region) is very exciting!  I'm sorry I cannot/will not divulge anymore information than what I have presented.

Best Regards,
Charlie

[Koen1]

Sorry Charlie, don't have enough time to go into your prime mover idea
in detail right now, but thanks for the explanation. I must read and think
it over a bit before I reply to that. Seems like you've done a few interesting
experiments with homopolar motors. I've done a few years ago as well,
it seems you're thinking along the same lines I was back then...

As to your drawing of the field lines, yes, that seems to be right.
And yes, if you draw it like that, the field lines outside the capacitor
have the same 'orientation' as those inside. But if you look at the plates,
you'll see that both plates see the lines outside the cap oriented oppositely
to the lines inside the cap.
In magnets the field line situation is different, you are right about that.
In a magnet, the field lines inside the magnet are oriented oppositely to
those outside of it. But if you look at the poles, you'll see that both poles
see the lines outside the magnet and those inside of it as having the
same 'orientation'.
In both situations the fields "fold in on themselves".
But at least now I get what you meant.

[Charlie_V]

As to your drawing of the field lines, yes, that seems to be right.
And yes, if you draw it like that, the field lines outside the capacitor
have the same 'orientation' as those inside. But if you look at the plates,
you'll see that both plates see the lines outside the cap oriented oppositely
to the lines inside the cap.
In magnets the field line situation is different, you are right about that.
In a magnet, the field lines inside the magnet are oriented oppositely to
those outside of it. But if you look at the poles, you'll see that both poles
see the lines outside the magnet and those inside of it as having the
same 'orientation'.
In both situations the fields "fold in on themselves".
But at least now I get what you meant. Wink

I'm so confused hahaha.  Can you draw me a picture of what you mean, when you get time?  I drew the standardized direction of flux.  From positive to negative (in the capacitor) and flux leaving the north pole (for the magnet).  Just looking at the plate (and I didn't draw all the flux lines) the flux is leaving in all directions, at the negative the flux is entering in all directions.  For the magnet, if you could slice a small sliver from the top, the flux is leaving on one side, but is entering on the back side (because a magnet does not have a monopole, you can't get flux leaving from all directions).  Inside the magnet the flux is always in a direction opposite. 

For an experiment with the capacitor, charge two plates up with high voltage (8kV or so).  Have a metal ball suspended on a string dangling in the middle of the two plates.  The ball will become electrostatically charged.  It will attract to the plate it is closest too.  When it touches the plates, it will become fully charged with the same polarity and will repelled toward the other plate.  The ball will bounce back and forth between the plates.  When the ball is charged, the field lines emit in all directions, just like the plates.  It will repel and attract to both plates, this is because the field lines, despite the polarity, are always in the same direction, either leaving or entering - they never return to the same object, in magnets the fields do.  If you tried this experiment with two magnets and a steel ball.  The ball would just stick to the side of whichever magnet it was closest to, and that would be the end of it.

Really, what I'm talking about isn't as great as I'm making it out to be.  I'm just trying to point out how the slight differences in the way a magnetic object has both flux entering and leaving, where as an electric object will only have one type, either entering or leaving. 

To me it appears as though the magnetic flux reaches out to the corners of the universe, comes in contact with everything and returns to that SAME object.  An electric field reaches out across the entire universe too, but it returns to a DIFFERENT object.  I'm probably talking out my ass though.

Sorry for rambling and over explaining, I have a tendency to do that. 

[GeoscienceStudent]

Koen:

Go to :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ATP.PNG

Look up shale oil retorting.  There are statements that retorting is still low efficiency and the reason we switched to sweet oil (petroleum) is because of cost, efficiency, and quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_extraction

http://ostseis.anl.gov/guide/oilshale/index.cfm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5424033

Now is it possible to apply a magnetic field using a similar principle as like in fusion (the donut shape toroidal magnetic field) somehow around the part that heats up the shale to increase the efficiency and heat?  Or is this too small to apply such a mechanism that would be effective?

Or would it even be effective since we are not using plasma?  (Seems like that would be extreme since you only have to go 500-700 degrees Celcius in retorting)
It would seem if you can use magnets in some motors, or even some alternators, or even brakes (though I heard the brakes had to be recalled) that you could apply some principle here to increase your efficiency; however, I can't tell if they already do or not.

There is still the environmental issue, though...they are trying to make the drilling smaller to decrease the release of emissions escaping.

Beck