Science contradicts itself..Questions

[Koen1]

Sorry for the couple of days silence.

On the electric field, I'll make a drawing soon if I have time.
It's nothing spectacular, it's just like your magnetic field line
drawing.

On the oil shale thing: Are you suggesting we use magnetic compression
to work oil shale up to high grade petrol product?
Interesting idea, but I don't really see how you propose to apply it
to the process of shale refining...

And it is a fallback to fossil fuels, which I thought we wanted to move away from...
Personally I would prefer to do away with fossil fuel combustion entirely,
so I do not perceive novel methods of refining oil to be a significant step
forward in energy technology.
After all, we know that continued large scale combustion of fossil fuels
will only serve to increase our already skyhigh CO2 levels and increase global
warming, increasing climate extremes, and generally perceived to be of
great threat to civilisation.
We also know how to do just about everything we can do with fossil fuels by
using other means; we can run our cars and engines on electricity, we don't
really need any combustion engines. They were usefull when oil was still dirt
cheap and came bubbling up out of the deserts almost by itself, but over the
decades the price of what is essentially a free material buried in the earth
has risen so much that it is simply no longer the cheap and easy fuel.
We can make lots of electricity by fission, geothermal, and solar processes,
and we're very close with fusion and direct extraction of electricity from the
ionic difference between salt and sweet water.
Let's focus on generating electricity. Let's forget about petrol. Electrical
energy has almost all the advantages of combustion fuels, without most
of the disadvantages.
Why opt for a diesel stove that fills your house with exhaust fumes and
micro dust particles and stench, if you can use an electrical stove?

[Dact]

Actually, the field in a capacitor only goes in a single direction - although they do loop like you said, it is still in the same direction.  Let me draw you the difference. 

Hi,

Your drawings are true, but could you please, if you have time, show the flux lines of two cylindrical magnets in close proximity and in attraction?
I have a post under "magnet motors", and I really need to know how the fields change when seeing an opposite charge. Thanks in advance if you have the time, otherwise, np.

Dact

[GeoscienceStudent]

Koen:

Even with new tech., everyone can't just change over in a day.  It will take time to buy new cars all over the world that uses the newer technology, so we still need oil.  With present dollar being worthless, and people are struggling now and possibly we will get a huge tax hike, I sure can't go out and buy a new car. I'm still paying for my school loan for my first 2 degrees, office management and nursing,[working on my 3rd]  my house, two teenagers and their big appetites and their future college, medical payments, etc.  (I've heard the truckers are planning a strike because of the deisel prices, so stock up)  Also, other things are made from petroleum besides gasoline:  plastics, medicines, lubricants to name a few.  So we still need it.  According to 2001-2005 statistics, we have enough oil to last about 40 years...but that doesn't take into account loss, increase of use (China increased theirs by 6 x over the last ten years), exponential population increase and demand, (US uses a little more than 25% world's energy consumption by 4.6% of the world's population, just to show how glutonous and developed countries work) increased demand due to developing countries, burning of some fields by people like Sadam Hussein, oil spills, etc.  Then of course, you can't extract every little bit out.    So maybe about 10 years would be more like it...Oh...at the grocery store, to save a tree...paper or plastic?  I made mine cloth. [Walmart cloth bags made in...China]

In situ retorting of oil shale is what I'm looking at.  Shell oil company can now extract the oil from Kerogen under ground by drilling and obtain shale oil for about $30.00 per barrel. (their latest claims I read) They drill down, cool down the shale first, then heat it up, in an environment without oxygen, causing it to release hydrocarbons, then condense the hydrocarbons.  Now this "oil" is poor quality and can settle with particles in it making it hard to refine, so they add a salinized solution to prevent that.  But it still has some carcinogenic particles that can be released during the refining process.  They still can't get all the "oil" out so it's still not efficient enough.  Too much waste, but it's getting better around 25-75%..and I've seen some numbers even in the 90 percentile.  And it uses a lot of energy...that's why I'm wondering about some kind of magnetic field to contain the heat but it depends on what kind of heat this magnetic force will contain.. I can't imagine using exactely what fusion does,(plasma seems too extreme) but can you use it for other "heating" methods?  To increase the heat and pressure, and reduce the energy required to feed it?
China, Estonia, and Bolivia use this.(oil shale for petroleum)  We used to.  The first one started in Auton, France in the 1850's and several countries used shale oil before they discovered petroleum.  (Pumping of oil began 1859. )  However that's just for major shale oil amounts.  Europe actually used the shale for burning long before that.  They used to just dig up the shale (not really the true name, the rock,  I think it's Marl, but don't quote me on that, but it's Kerogen is the organic substance the oil comes from) and retort it, but the in situ (They heat it up under ground) process is promising.  It's still not high quality yet and still not efficient.  about 25-75%.   It can yeild about 10-140 gallons of oil per ton of rock processed.   Tar Sands is another that produces oil.  Just for a thought, wind energy is about 35% efficiency on its best days depends on size of windmill rotors,  and where it is, etc.  and I've seen some renewable resources efficiency at 15%, according to some of my research (numbers could vary depending on sources).
Hope I'm not rambling too much.  I keep going back and adding sentences.
We are going to go back to studying it this fall, fossil fuels (the geologist that lead the research in the 1970's is my teacher and he decided we need to look at it again due to the WHOLE story of what is going on in the world) and believe it or not, (regardless of what the presidential candidates claim) the government is in a full throttle force in working on this.  We have, after all, 60% of the world's oil shale, 1/3 of it is in the Green River Basin in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming.  There is already people obtaining this oil now.
( You may have seen something on the news about complaints of environmental problems in Colorado lately due to science research...?)
You see, we need a "cushion" to get us through while trying to move to other options, and to continue making the plastic products.  There is a plant in the rain forest that can make plastic, (the plant is being grown on purpose for this now, but I don't know where) but there is also decreasing rain forest due to slash and burn for crops.  This soil is so full of aluminum, and leeched out  so bad, that the ground is only good for 3-5 years tops, then they move to another place.  The governments of many of these countries also take the choice lands to grow products to pay the high interest rates to the World Bank for loans so the people move out to the forest to survive.  In Africa I saw the government made a deal with a company to mine for gold and threw the people out, and in another they took the forest away from the Baka (promising education in its stead, but now they're in danger of starving) to sell the trees...The World Bank did work on a project to give other options, like offer rice subsidies...but you try to live on rice only.. oh and be a diabetic..don't forget beri-beri...a nervous disorder that leads to death due to lack of   certain vitamins that comes from protein rich food (niacin I think)..not found in white rice. * Baka are known as "pigmies" in either Camaroon or Congo, I can't remember which,  to Westerners.
Now let's not forget the garbage thrown into the oceans...plastics end up in sea gull's mouths causing their stomachs to bloat and they starve...while reducing the oceans ability to absorb CO2... the increase of population, thus increasing CO2 while alive, methane gas while dead,(and of course they desire a car, after all, don't you...personally I'm for mass transport but it's not offered here, and the population here is not excited about using trains and buses)  the decrease of forests for also wood, which is causing deserfication increase in Africa, not to mention South America's is rapidly disappearing, decreasing CO2 absorption, the less ellipticle revolution of the Earth around the Sun, increasing heat, but Scientist now say the Sun decreased solar flares over the past 8-9 years which would decrease heat,  plankton in the ocean puts out more CO2 than the total population in the world, but let's kill all the whales because they eat plankton, and to add the probability factor of uncertainty...  It would take over a hundred years to make a difference if we stopped putting out emissions according to most of the reports I've read from several groups including the Copenhagen Concensus, and UN.  And those you see on National Geographic and Discovery channels and Weather channel.  Only Al Gore ( and what is called the "alarmnists") says we'll all end up under the Ocean in 20 yearswhile the group in charge of monitoring the Earth temp changes are disagreeing (for which they were called a few choice names by the "alarmnists") At least he showed most of the land under water, though scientists say there is not enough to totally cover all land and ice in the Artic is already displacing the water so it would not cause it to rise if it melted , only that on land melting would make a difference like Greenland, and Antarctic and there is arguments that the Antartic is getting colder yet ice is breaking off but I've yet to see the actual temperatures measured  but we can magically change the heavens by only a few developed countries already in mass debt making changes in emission reductions.  Hmm...so if I change my tire on my car, then the water pump, alternator, power steering, brakes, belts, batteries, transmission, and everything else broke on it will just automatically fix itself?  The Global Warming issue is a system  of issues and it's very complicated.  Do some real research on it and see what you come up with.  Don't forget to look up under water river currents, and our geological history..coming off the Little Ice Age,,theories of why we had it.. We've had similar climate issues in the early 1900's as now, it has been hotter than this before...etc , etc,  etc...  And scientist all over can not come up with an agreeable model,, but Al Gore the genious by a degree in? law?  Perhaps under water basket weaving science?  Is going to be genious mad scientist and recreate the world..then celestial choirs will come down, and roses will appear in every garden... we'll have a chicken in every pot, no one will be hungry, or have sorrow, or tears, no more sickness, no more wars, Solar Monkeys made from Carbon developed during fusion of the sun due to the Miller/Urley experiment  will appear and give everyone a magic banana, Osama Bin Laden will turn into Apostle Paul and preach the gospel, and you will win the lottery and never work again.. keep dreaming.  Maybe the last might happen.
Oh, and China is drilling offshore in the Atlantic Ocean with Cuba..the heck with our Environmental issues, and Russia is fighting for the offshore drilling in the Artic...do you really think we'll make a difference?  Several African countries have been drilling to obtain money for oil, after all, their governments (See Nigeria..in National Geographic) want to be able to sit on solid gold seats in their mansions and pay off the national debt while the US continues to add to their debt. 
Do you see people staying home?  Buying less gas?  turning off the lights and televisions?  Walking?  How many recycle plastics?  Hospitals can't.  They incinerate them because of the possible infectious quality of them.  Can a few people make a difference when other countries are in a race to become the world leaders?  Turn over your plastic whatever you have and look at where it was made.  What percentage of it says "Made in China?"  Where did that plastic come from?  Fusion?  Fission?  Hydrology?  Solar?  No....Petroleum.  Now look around your house....How much plastic do you have... Building materials...furniture...your keyboard...dishes...toys...pens...radio, tv, handles on your fridge, oven, microwave, dishwasher.  Your ketchup bottle, what you put your leftovers in..etc. 

The probability of ....uncertainty. 
It is estimated that 5 volcanoes going off at the same time (not necessarily exact same time ) could lower the Earth's temperature 5 degrees Celcius,  an ice age.  Several are being watched right now...one in the Cascades,  Indonesia...Composite types, not shield types like in Hawaii...That blow particles in the air that is caught in wind currents blocking the sun and putting harmful gases and particles in the air that can kill animals and humans but usually dissipate within a year or so.

Now think about it... we've raised our temp about 0.6 degrees Celcius to 1.0 degrees (depending on source) mainly in the Northern Hemisphere over the past 100 years and it made this much difference.  What would happen if we reduced the temp 5 degrees?  How much food can you grow?  What did the tree rings do in Ireland during 1400's to 1700's?  What happens during La Nina in the equator, or just a little away from it like Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya? (Is why there is 2008 drought and famine now but fossils in Ethiopia show there used to be tropical rain forest and lower elevation but the plataeu is rising, so theory is that is why the consistent poor rain situation now, not global warming, though some argue it's global warming. They do get orographic rains in West side of Ethiopia though goes to near the mid-country)  You need the heat for convection to create the Hadley cells.  Less heat = less rain in that territory.  BUT...There are difference issues when you are in monsoon areas, or west coast or orographic rain from mountains, etc. You also need the foilage from forests because they put out alot of water, too, so cut down the trees and???

Guess I'll quit rambling now.

PS  Can you count the "science claims" contradictions in this post (including with what you may have heard against some of these claims)? 

[scotty1]

Ahem.....just clear my throat....
Here are some quotes I like to read......
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Lord Kelvin drew attention to the general tendency in nature towards dissipation of mechanical energy, a fact borne out in daily observation of thermo-dynamic and dynamo-thermic processes and one of ominous significance.  It meant that the driving force of the universe was steadily decreasing and that ultimately all of its motive energy will be exhausted none remaining available for mechanical work.  In the macro-cosmos, with its countless conception, this process might require billion of years for its consummation; but in the infinitesimal worlds of the micro-cosmos it must have been quickly completed.  Such being the case then, according to an experimental findings and deductions of positive science, any material substance (cooled down to the absolute zero of temperature) should be devoid of an internal movement and energy, so to speak, dead.

This idea of the great philosopher, who later honored me with his friendship, had a fascinating effect on my mind and in meditating over it I was struck by the thought that if there is energy within the substance it can only come from without.  This truth was so manifest to me that I expressed it in the following axiom: "There is no energy in matter except that absorbed from the medium."  Lord Kelvin gave us a picture of a dying universe, of a clockwork wound up and running down, inevitably doomed to come to a full stop in the far, far off future.  It was a gloomy view incompatible with artistic, scientific and mechanical sense.  I asked myself again and again, was there not some force winding up the clock as it runs down?  The axiom I had formulated gave me a clue.  If all energy is supplied to matter from without then this all important function must be performed by the medium.  Yes--but how?

When radio-active rays were discovered their investigators believed them to be due to liberation of atomic energy in the form of waves.  This being impossible in the light of the preceding I concluded that they were produced by some external disturbance and composed of electrified particles.  My theory was not seriously taken although it appeared simple and plausible.  Suppose that bullets are fired against a wall.  Where a missile strikes the material is crushed and spatters in all directions radial from the place of impact In this example it is perfectly clear that the energy of the flying pieces can only be derived from that of the bullets.  But in manifestation of radio-activity no such proof could be advanced and it was, therefore, of the first importance to demonstrate experimentally the existence of this miraculous disturbance in the medium.  I was rewarded in these efforts with quick success largely because of the efficient method I adopted which consisted in deriving from a great mass of air, ionized by the disturbance, a current, storing its energy in a condenser and discharging the same through an indicating device.

Light and heat rays are absorbed in their passage through a medium in a certain proportion to its density.  The ether, although the most tenuous of all substances, is no exception to this rule.  Its density has been first estimated by Lord Kelvin and conformably to his finding a column of one square centimeter cross section and of a length such that light, traveling at a rate of three hundred thousands kilometers per second, would require one year to traverse it, should weigh 4.8 grams.........Nikola Tesla......
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Rays: When I reduce the material from which comes out the alpha, beta and gamma rays, so small when it is magnified one hundred times and appearing the same size as an average salt crystal, then there is no more rays, but has flashes the same as when a connected wire end is tapped on the battery's terminal, but without the red sparks. Depending on the size sometimes, I have to wait five minutes before I can see a flash.
The natural path to the North pole magnets in the Northern Hemisphere is to go down, and the South pole magnets to go up. I think it would be a good idea if the physicists while testing radium on the photographic film for alpha rays, would put the radium on top of the film, and for beta rays the radium under the film, and then watch the results, or go to the Southern Hemisphere and experiment in the some way as they are doing now, and then notice if there is an difference. The gamma rays must be the same as the sun light, but stronger because they are used very close to their source.

We have North and South pole magnets, positive and negative electricity, protons, and electrons, positrons and mesons and alpha, beta and gamma rays. Now why such a confusion? Does nature really need so many things in the perpetual transformation of things, on building up the matter and again taking it into parts? I think all that nature needs is three things, the North and South pole magnets and the neutral particles.

The Thomson electrons are very small parts of matter which come out of the cathode while the cathode is burned up or consumed in the vacuum tube.

Without the general circulation of the building blocks there would be no change. Everything would remain in the same way as it is now. The building blocks from a matter that go to pieces could not get in the general circulation for the new construction.

I think the Radium and Uranium were built up inside the earth with high pressure, and heat, while the North and South pole individual magnets were circulating through the earth. During the time the Radium and Uranium were inside the earth they absorbed more of the individual North and South pole magnets than they normally could hold, and so now while they are on top of the earth they let the magnets go so they can become normal again.

Gravitation must be caused by the matter in the middle of the earth, and more concentrated than Uranium. When Uranium atoms burst they release the North and South pole individual magnets that held the atom together, then the magnets scatter all around, but when the atoms burst in the middle of the earth, and many burst at the same time, they can only run from the middle to the outside. When the North and South pole magnets are running alongside each other and in the same direction, they have no attraction for the other kind. They only attract if they are running one kind against the other kind. When the magnets are running out of the middle of the earth, as soon as they meet an object they attract it, on account of the fact that in any object there is both kinds of magnets in it.

The invention of an electron came by a tricky method in using electricity in a vacuum tube. Normally whether it be a generator or a battery, the positive terminal will have to be connected to the negative terminal, but in the vacuum tube two batteries with different strength were used, the smaller battery was connected normally, but the larger battery's negative terminal was connected to the smaller battery's negative terminal, and the positive terminal was left alone. That connection gave the negative terminal a double dose of strength, and so it became hotter and could push more. It was called cathode and the positive terminal anode, and the electricity that passed from the cathode to the anode was called electrons.
The Thomson electrons are very small parts of matter which come out of the cathode while the cathode is burned up or consumed in the vacuum tube..........EDWARD LEEDSKALNIN....leedskalnin.net
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Scotty

[scotty1]

Here is something else for the curious.....
The radio waves are made by the North and South pole magnets. They spread around the earth, and the North and South pole. Magnets that are coming down from the sun are hitting the radio waves across, and so disturbing their paths. That is the reason why we cannot hear the radio as well in the day time as we do at night. At night time we only get those magnets that are coming down from other suns or stars, but in the day time we get them all.
Radio waves are not waves; they are North and South pole individual magnets which are coming out
of a transformer of the secondary winding?s coil ends, one-half going up in the air and the other half
in the ground in increasing and decreasing numbers. The numbers are regulated by the transmitting tube, and the speed by voltage. The increasing and decreasing magnet numbers cause the receiver?s antenna to generate a tiny current to start the amplification to reproduce the original broadcast. The magnets are not running up to the ionosphere and down again, but are running horizontally until they are lost.
Those magnets which go up to the ionosphere never come back as radio to the receiver, they only
cause the ionosphere?s magnets to come back to Earth as radar waves. Magnets do not run in the way the radio wave drawings show......Ed Leedskalnin....
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The actions at a distance cannot be proportionate to the height of the antenna and the current in the same. I shall endeavor to make this clear by reference to diagram in Fig. 14. The elevated terminal charged to a high potential induces an equal and opposite charge in the earth
In Fig. 13 a transmitter is shown radiating space waves of considerable frequency. It is generally believed that these waves pass along the earth's surface and thus affect the receivers. I can hardly think of anything more improbable than this "gliding wave" theory and the conception of the "guided wireless" which are contrary to all laws of action and reaction. Why should these disturbances cling to a conductor where they are counteracted by induced currents, when they can propagate in all other directions unimpeded? The fact is that the radiations of the transmitter passing along the earth's surface are soon extinguished, the height of, the inactive zone indicated in the diagram, being some function of the wave length, the bulk of the waves traversing freely the atmosphere. Terrestrial phenomena which I have noted conclusively show that there is no Heaviside layer, or if it exists, it is of no effect.....
The same conclusions will be reached by transmitting and receiving circuits with wires buried underground. In each case the actions carefully investigated will be found to be due to earth currents. Numerous other proofs might be cited which can be easily verified. So for example oscillations of low frequency are ever so much more effective in the transmission which is inconsistent with the prevailing idea. My observations in 1900 and the recent transmissions of signals to very great distances are another emphatic disproval........Nikola Tesla.....THE TRUE WIRELESS.
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The writer asked Mr Rogers just how he came to form the idea of the "Underground and Subsea Radio". He explained that from his very first study of the method of transmitting radio signals by means of an elevated antenna, the question constantly presented itself to his mind --- "If 50 units of power are past into the aerial, then what becomes of the equal amount of energy which passes into the ground". To Mr Rogers?s mind it was more reasonable to suppose that the energy liberated at the base of an aerial was propagated through the earth as well as through the ether above, and that an elevated aerial, at great distance, would be actuated by them as effectually as if the waves reached the same point through the ether above; when the waves through the earth reached the base of the aerial the potential of the plate would be raised and lowered and the aerial would accordingly be energized.
First, that the electrical energy liberated at the base of an antenna will be propagated through the earth even in the absence of etheric space waves above, if such a condition were possible, and which in reality does occur when great distances are signaled over, so he believes. Second, that the propagation of earth waves no more depend upon the ether waves above the surface than these etheric waves depend upon the earth waves. Further, that both waves are propagated simultaneously, one above and another below the surface of the earth, and that at the initial start each is dependent upon the other, although thereafter neither is dependent upon the other. Furthermore, Mr Rogers believes that the ether waves gradually die out in intensity in proportion to the earth?s curvature, and the distance over which they are propagated, and that at great distances the ether space waves do not have any appreciable effect upon receiving appliances, and that these are energized solely by the energy transmitted through the earth.


One of the Naval experts present mentioned that it had been found that the penetration of the ground wave component increases with an increase in wavelength. This is an important fact and helps to explain the operation of this new radio system, with its aerials buried in the ground. He also mentioned that "Radio to Mars" or other planets would be impossible, if we are to believe in the well-known "Heaviside" ionization layer.........http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm
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"Terrestrial phenomena which I have noted conclusively show that there is no Heaviside layer, or if it exists, it is of no effect. It certainly would be unfortunate if the human race were thus imprisoned and forever without power to reach out into the depths of space. "  NIKOLA TESLA 1919....
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm
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