Roll on the 20th June

[ramset]

Zero try not to be so omnipotent this world is full of surprizes Chet

[Rusty_Springs]

Oddly enough Graham, the exact position you take above is how I got dragged into this BS with exx...I suggested, in a rather graphic way this same position, with a pretty solid argument.

The problem, as I see it, is that certain people cannot hold things that are seemingly opposing to be true. Just go back and look at the gunfire exchange.

I believe I even explained it somewhat like this: it is patently ridiculous for us to throw all of human knowledge out the window to prove a negative!

It is a schoolyard pissing match game, if that. Like you said, it is perfectly reasonable, viable and even sensible to use math, physics and history in a comprehensive analysis of a design or idea to determine if pursuing it might be lacking in merit or wasteful of resources.

This ISN'T negativity...this isn't "trashing". Believe me, there are enough Newtonians out there that believe beyond ALL DOUBT that ANY FE/OU is impossible. And, as I stated then, I repeat now: that is BAD SCIENCE...that is RELIGION.

Newton's Laws are fairly unique; they stood for hundreds of years unfalslified...but are still subject to falsification. They aren't The Truth; that is the domain of religion and philosophy. They are however a pretty good starting point for any physics research.

What is even more weird tho Graham is how time and time again folks talk about "building"...which is part of the scientific process: testing/falsification/replication of results and peer review.

I wish that this browser did not suck as bad as it did and the post I want to reference was not buried here, so my apologies for the original poster for not attributing directly, but this thought, paraphrased was this:

"The scholarly bits of science are rather boring to the layperson."

I'm willing to accept that, so let's leave THAT part to those that WANT to do the scholarly debate. Let's have those discussions, and if folks still want to have at it, let them...if they choose to be willfully ignorant at that point it is fine and we let it go.

If FE is to be found, you really have to separate the wheat from the chaff...and the chaff is not the exclusive domain of folks that want some more eyes on a thing that know what it is about.

Let the builders build, the artists draw and render, the physicists run the numbers, the researchers investigate and the watchers watch.

If all of these sum parts are contributing to the main goal then it is ALL GOOD.

One-sided "oh god, this will NEVER work and you are ALL FOOLS!! Can't you SEE? NO ONE CAN CHALLENGE NEWTON!!!  LOL STUPID MORONS!!!" arguments are just as bad as "No! No! NO MATH! NO SCIENCE! Let's flush critical thinking and just bang the rocks together like Neanderthal and Cro-Mag did!!! LALALALALLALALALA NOT LISTENING!!!! Yo MAMA!!!!"

Feelin' me?

-K

Hi MrKai
I totaly agree with everything you have said here and I don't need to look up what you have said I have been following you from the start.
Take Care MrKai
Graham

[fletcher]

roadstar .. if you consider quinn's manic behaviour & his propensity to change directions whenever & wherever it suited him it should have raised a red flag - I do give him credit though for going back & eventually sticking with the supposedly "dumb blond simple" grav-mag wheel that he purportedly built & had working 2 years ago [believe what you will but consider this design concept & principle is not unique by any stretch] - yes, he did make a big song & dance about the weight extension being the key to breaking the wall [the equivalent of a physical ramp the weights must rise over to create the beneficial toque on the other side of the wheel] - then there was the problem that if you use magnets to attract the rod weights [magnets] on the descending side they hold or suspend partially the weight contribution to torque from those displaced rods - the curvature of the array has to be such that the gap closes to create rotation & torque but then as everybody finds out at the narrowest gap the attraction won't let go [the force is greatest here] & there is insufficient momentum in the wheel as a whole to accomplish that - quinn thought [well, insisted] that the extensions overcame that monumental deficiency, yet he abandoned his rationale in the final wash-up - his arguments about increasing the momentum were partially correct but did not add anything to the energy of the system & energy is the capacity to do work so its the bit that matters.

The reason IMO that quinn chopped & changed & went off on tangents & distractions is that he had no clear mental pathway about where any extra energy was to finally come from to break the conservative nature of both magnetism & gravity which together cannot break or sideline the conservation of momentum & energy laws.

As an aside, usually people following this avenue of thought try to find a shielding material to allow the weights to rise without all the full compliment of back-torque associated with the ramp/wall or to allow the attracting magnets to release at the appropriate time - then they start to look at spinning/rotating the magnets in the arrays & perhaps electro-magnets which can be switched on & off when required [permanent magnets cannot be, obviously, hence the hunt for shielding] - with the use of electro-mags you can time a pulse of energy to a get the mag-grav wheel thru the gate or over the hump etc but it requires external [battery?] power which must be replenished - some clever people have built electric motors/generators that employ this principle of timed pulse to do this & get a runner but as many have said the permanent magnets quickly degauss & if you were to do the energy calcs on energy output v's the energy required to make a permanent magnet it would zero sum if no additional losses were actually accounted for.

Just my opinions [JMO's}

[exxcomm0n]

Hi Exx
I was one of the sceptics from the begining, the site I just put up on my last post is me not putting anything on the table to do with FE, just because we can see where something can't work with out having to test it don't mean we are against FE.
Take Care Exx
Graham

Hi Rusty/Graham,

The deal is this:

You have been a skeptic.

You have brought your experience with you and commented as such when an idea is proposed.

You have NOT belittled anyone, called anyone names, or inferred a status of lower intelligence for thinking this could work.

You have kept coming back to this thread, even though you may see it as folly, and treated everyone you address with the respect any person should afford another.

You have kept coming back, and though it baffles me as to why, I hold no ill will against you because of it.

You state your case, or previous insight, and you wish the recipient to take care.

You seem to be a very nice person.

I welcome your dissenting view (and took a little "side" time confusing you with my meager understanding of aeronautics, even though the professionals in the thread did not correct me).

I welcome the input (even though it seems a little odd that you're trying to save us from wasting our time) of any man that states his belief in such a manner.

I do not have your gentlemanly manner, but I have TRIED (and failed) to emulate your gentlemanly example.

Please pity me for not being able to do so with others, but I give what I get.

Take care Rusty/Graham

[exxcomm0n]

Since one good twist of the quote (knife) desreves another......

This proves your propensity for NOT looking up what people have said and just firing off...your words:

Yup. I said that, but lets look at some of these in context.

Lets see..you wanted an idea, ANY idea about a machine...no matter how silly:


and look, here is one for a not-so-silly:

If you look back a little after this particular post (magnetic engine), you'll see I replied and provided YOU a link to the thread started by Stephan about him visiting and filming just such a device in the 80's.

Ooooh here is me helping someone find info on the coral castle guy:

Whoa there! Is this Mr. Kai *encouraging builders?!?!*

Strange, it seems much more in the vein of "Go ahead and waste your time little man".

Really. Let it die. There, challenge met, as as I said awhile ago...its HERE. It has been. Click my name. Boom.

Now that you have gotten me to do your little dance, meet your challenge...can we refrain from the Special K ad hominem BS..please?

Like all of these other times I asked you...just click the referenced post below:

-K

You keep coming back for it though, like a dog with a bone seeing his reflection in the pond and losing his bone he has, because he wants the other one he can see.

If I let you have the last word, I say you're "right".

I don't believe that.