Roll on the 20th June

[MrKai]

I didn't rephrase it, I quoted it, and it's there for all to see.

THAT was an attack?
I'm tellin' ya, politics is sorely missing your acumen.

1. Another personal attack...

..and now we're back to "disingenuous liar".

Bud, pick one or the other please.

2. And I said that in this exchange...where? Ah.

It ain't my job, it's my entertainment.

My "job" is to try to contribute, EVEN IF IT'S WRONG, to try and further an idea (actually, it's my entertainment too).

My aim is to contribute, EVEN IF IT REQUIRES USING ACTUAL EVIDENCE, REASON AND COMMON SENSE to deal with the contribution as such.

There you go ordering me around again.

You need my respect for that to happen.

I really don't need your respect for anything. You are nameless, faceless person on an Internet forum. If gaining your respect means turning a blind eye to a lying, deluded megalomanic because he "means well" then I guess I will have to do without it.

I challenge you to do the same in opposite, and see how long lasting that thread is.

Whut-eva. I made it clear that my interest was in THIS thread. I'm real good about that...clarity

....and, if it piques my interest, so shall I in the effort to make all that is "holey", be even more so.

Not even sure what that was supposed to mean...

1 more "day", and you shall be vindicated I'm sure.

For vindication there would need to be a vendetta. Since he has never personally harmed me in any measurable way (his in-cohesive rants against me do me no harm...they are more incredible than anything else) my thinking is that vindication isn't really on the RADAR for me.

More like...

Closure.

-K

[Rusty_Springs]

Hi sm0ky2 and Graham

  I have also looked at the possibility of using the tri-gate on archers wheel and so far all the test I have tried has been positive as long as they are set up correctly. I think there is a very big chance that it will make the wheel a lot more efficient and the combination of wheel and tri-gate defo will be compatible from where I'm standing  .

Hi Gwhy
That sounds great I just didn't know if they would push up well enough or attract up well enough, if they do like you say then this would work because you get no draw back from the magnets and you even get a kick from them comming out to help increase your speed.
Take Care Gwhy
Graham

[MrKai]

...has anyone actually considered if any of this foolishness with the magnets would be better suited for some sort of (electro)magnetic attract/repulse powered quasi-piston sort of operation?

As opposed to an overbalanced wheel. This occurred to me in the car that if one could work out a way to "bounce" a piston-like rod thingee off a repelling magnetic field, but it had the right weight, it would in theory go up and down on its own, so I suppose it would be using gravity.

As such a concept seems stone simple and obvious, I'm gonna guess someone has already tried this...The travel from the repulsion probably wouldn't be far enough to be useful, now that I think about it...but I don't mess with these sort of things so I could be mistaken.

Ah well

-K

[spinner]

@ Spinner,
               Thanx for the input, your concepts are accurate.  More specifically, my curiosity surrounds the properties of an electromagnet. If the coil of an electromagnet uses 100 watts of power and only one pole is coupled to a rotor magnet, a force of X units is applied between the poles of the rotor and stator.  With the components optimized, the output would be 100 watts of mechanical power output (neglecting of course some small losses).  If 100 watts input produces X units of force on one pole then that same 100 watts input would produce X units of force on the opposite pole.  That X units of force on the opposite pole, between the pole and a rotor magnet should produce  100 watts of mechanical output power(neglecting losses).

                 If this electromagnet was configured in a horseshoe shape, both rotors could be mounted on the same axle, one oriented toward the N pole and one oriented with the S pole.  Total power:  Input=100W  Output=200W.  As most of you well know, conventional motors are not configured that way.  Of course I have not taken into account the effects of CounterElectromotive Force, or any other unforeseen anomalies.  Does anyone else have any ideas about this?  Thanx in advance.


        Power to the Anti-Sheeple!!

@Xaverius
I think I understand the point you're trying to make...
Electro-magnet (EM) has an advantage of making a (very strong) magnetic field when supplied with el. current. It can be switched on/off whenever 'we'(or application) "wants". Those are the main (if not all) advantages...

To maintain a magnetic field, just leave the supply on... When activated, it draws power. Activated EM can exert a force on other ferromagnetic materials. A mechanical FORCE( measured in Newtons). If this force acts on an (ferromagnetic) object and moves it, a work (in physical terms) is done.

Activate the EM, it pulls the nail which stucks on it, but after this happens, no more work is done (no obvious mechanical energy transformations..) - yet it still draws current... Leave it on for a year, the nail still rests on it (one could glue the nail on it and it wouldn't make any difference regarding the work/energy concept).
Of course, a 100W EM would consume many kWh of electricity in a year, obviously without doing any 'usefull' work at all...
(I must say, to pick-up a nail, permanent magnets are better... No electricity needed..)

The truth is, EM does work, but it may not seem so obvious - EM (coil) supplied with a current acts like a - resistor. Ohm's law, V=IR / P=I2R = VI. All the electricity is spent for heating the coil/wire! 

So, A 100W ELECTRO-MAGNET actually produces 100-Watts of - Heat!

Jeeez, a magnetic field, made by the EM is then - FOR FREE!?

Almost.
To "build up" a magnetic field, some energy is needed. This energy goes to reorientation of the magnetic domains in a ferromagnetic core material (so far this is still recognised as a CoE process!) After this happens, electricity is spent for "heating the coil only"...
After the EM field is built, every single watt of power goes to heat... Imagine that! That's why the "fridge magnets" are not electro-magnets. To stick a notice on the fridge, a PM is the right choice...

If the magnetic flux is changing (building or collapsing == switching on/off), the energy is transferred. That's the principle of an AC (electricity transformers via magnetism - not possible with a DC/battery).

How about permanent magnets? Their flux is not changing, in fact a PM magnet is 'dead' in energy terms when observed from the outside... The sum of flux 'lines' (or potential/gradients) is - ZERO. If we want to do something with our permanent magnet, we must move it (changing flux).. A mechanical work input! Like spinning it by our bicycle (dynamo) to induce a current in stator coils... Changing flux...)

Oops, i got carried away... Now, your original question - you see, a PM is not a "monopole". Any PM has "north" and "south" poles, and the mag. field originates IN "BOTH POLES" AT THE SAME TIME. Like any object(or subject) in our world, the PM tries to reach the "lowest energy potential" possible... As long as there's a possibility of a lower energy potential, the "system" tends to reach it (pull or push to a finally resting positions)
That means it's "flux lines are seeking the path of less resistance". Naturally, a high permeability materials have advantage. Or special shaped (horse-shoe) magnets with a smaller air-gap... Or any ferromagnetic object in the vicinity. The force is acted upon it to the point of less potential (shortest mag. path).. Pulling a nail which stucks on the magnet..

When comes to classical el. motors and their "one pole activity" only - considering the construction (movable rotor and 'static' stator) - it's almost impossible to reduce the airgaps (magnetic paths) to zero. And, after all, the same flux 'flows' through both poles...

Sorry for a lenghty post (I was just trying to be helpfull), and for mistakes I've made.
Cheers!

[DarkStar_DS9]

...has anyone actually considered if any of this foolishness with the magnets would be better suited for some sort of (electro)magnetic attract/repulse powered quasi-piston sort of operation?

*raises hand* yes, me. While playing with some magnets I noticed that if a magnet quickly passes another magnet, it won't attract / repel it - so my idea was to build a piston-like setup where two magnets quickly approach each other - if the motion is then slowed down, they should repel each other. Didn't put much thought into it and didn't do any tests, it's just something I keep on my list of things to check whenever I am bored / need some distraction

Also, there is a youtube-video which was mentioned just recently here, using a piston-like setup.

Regards,

Rainer