Roll on the 20th June

[mscoffman]

Actually, wind turbines are not subject to load, because no wind turbine in the commercial world, nor in the people with half a brain world, connect turbines to a load, they all run to capacitance or battery, the reason for this is simple, the amount of power fluctuates with the speed of the wind, no one in their right mind would connect a load directly to the turbine, however the power can be measure when turning and the load is calculated in simple using ohms law, watts divided by volts equals amps, this is of course fed into a controller and then to capacitor,grid or battery. even a cheap wind turbine would simply not turn short of a gale if it was subject to load cogging. Capacitance (controllers)is what prevents this.

@Archer;

You don't know what you talking about and the complexity is too high to
explain it easily. The electronic concept of load which is the one we use on this
web site takes priority over the ultility definition that you are talking about.

The utility definition of load is part of "demand supply regulation".
The regulator is not generally called a controller.

Your understanding of cogging as opposed to the concept of mehanical
braking backforce is faulty. An Auto Alternator are 3 phase structure to
help eliminate cogging while braking force can never be eliminated.

The concept of Lenz free energy generation is a theoretical construct not part
of real generators and is only discussed on here.

->So in general if a generator shaft is not hard to turn it's because no power
   is being dissipated in a load.

AC generators need to have the prime mover turn at specific RPM to cause
the rotor to put magnetic poles past a coil a specific number of times
per second. Few generators have permanent magnets in their field because
they are difficult to regulate.  In an Alternator the prime mover RPM is not
controllable so the regulator decides how much power it wants then sets
the alternators field current to generate that amount at the current RPM.
Construction site AC generators generally use relucance/reasonant regulation.
If the generator charges a battery the regulator is designed to give the
battery what it needs for fastest recharge.

To some extent you are comporting yourself like Dennis Lee. You think OU
energy is everywhere but it is only in specific spots and because you don't
accept the conservation of energy you can't design anything that works
or debug anything that almost works.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[sm0ky2]

These are standard in any fan-type device that uses mains electricity in the U.S. (and several other countries that have adopted our 120v system)

just open them up and pull the motor out.

They produce a perfect A/C signal. Output scales up with RPM.
this is probably the most efficient generator you will find, and they are free everywhere, from decommisioned devices. i have a lot of them myself, they're great. and like i said before, if you're anywhere in a human-populated area, they will self-excite the coil-field from ambient EMF.

you can use a belt-drive to up the RPM off a larger flywheel, many people use these in home-built WindGens.

[note: some of them have a quencher, like seen on this one here, this is basically to prevent sparks from the 120v power lines, when you turn it on. you will want to remove that if you are using it as a generator instead of a motor. not all of them have this]

[The Eskimo Quinn]

@Archer;

You don't know what you talking about and the complexity is too high to
explain it easily. The electronic concept of load which is the one we use on this
web site takes priority over the ultility definition that you are talking about.

The utility definition of load is part of "demand supply regulation".
The regulator is not generally called a controller.


:S:MarkSCoffman

I could argue this point with you, however that would be a little like arguing with a child, just because you read a few things on the net or in books, is not the real world, I hate to burst your bubble, but firstly i have never in my life seen a wind turbine slow down due to the produced current being used, secondly, a controller is the correct term for the devices, just like a solar controller, they are not regulators, regulators control output. Suffice to say a controller does not have to modify voltage, simply remove back emf and control the input from the device in question to a capacitance device or battery, regulators control voltage in and most importantly out. and almost 100 percent of the time modify the voltage, a controller does not.

You do know i actually work in the industry in senior management of electrical engineering firms? As I said what you read on forums and in chat rooms is most often students or people pretending they are something they are not, I was genuinely having coffee with a nuclear physicist in my house yesterday, I try to stay within the realms of working knowledge as much as possible not books or what people think is the case, we save that for when there is no practical proof yet.

As to your last sentence, you forget, I have done this before to a working machine end product, so your remark is incorrect.

EDIT: I will conceed that if you are talking about a turbine or motor than increase voltage output as it increases in speed then you would need a regulator, however if you paid close attention i noted that the turbine in question would be 30watts, which are like most low wattage turbines under 2kw set voltage, and the only increase is amperage. So it may be simply you need to pay closer attention to the information. I Gtee you if you connect a power drill to a hand wind generator torch, the bearing will go before the bulb will blow.

<sub>SIGNATURE:Response to remarks of this being impossible.

Actually an object that does work is using energy to do it, two ring magnets sitting on a pole one floating above the other is work performed, thus there is energy, magnets are batteries of stored magnetic energy, so it is not energy from nothing and is not a breach of the laws of physics, finding ways to make magnets produce work other than levitation is simply mechanics, no tricks. if a guy says it runs, maybe it does, but there is no hocus pocus when we see magnets float over each other. this is just mechanics, the physics component is getting the right mechanics. A weather vane floating on a magnet on a pole is a mechanical use of the energy and additionally a frictionless bearing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</sub>

[sm0ky2]

@ archer

he's trying relate wind turbines to a direct-drive generator, which is the type most used in experiments on this forum. these produce load-dependent back-torque.
To know the difference, you would have to actually have worked with wind turbine generators.
which most have not.
Thats why i suggested using the induction motor in the pictures above. these are almost identicle, but smaller versions (and by design do not need a controller). The back-torque is directly related to the power produced, independent from the load.

Thats the difference between experience and knowledge.
It's really not his fault, he just hasn't been down that road yet.
You can study all the books in the world, but until you actually "do" it, these things are not truly "learned".

I dont even use alternators anymore, just the induction motors as generators. When you compare the efficiency of the power conversion, theres really nothing that comes close.
Even a 3-phase will have a great deal of reverse torque when a load is applied.  You can litterally hook a lightbulb straight to an induction motor, and it wont slow it down. A capacitor is exactly the same, it just transfers the power bit by bit, instead of all at once.

[The Eskimo Quinn]

@Archer;


AC generators need to have the prime mover turn at specific RPM to cause
the rotor to put magnetic poles past a coil a specific number of times
per second. Few generators have permanent magnets in their field because
they are difficult to regulate.  In an Alternator the prime mover RPM is not
controllable so the regulator decides how much power it wants then sets
the alternators field current to generate that amount at the current RPM.

:S:MarkSCoffman

I have to say that after re reading your post there is almost nothing correct in it all all, again i do not need to argue the point, simply have one of your friend give you the leads of their car alternator, take off the spark leads so it cant actually start, and turn it over. even before a full rotation, not many times per second, you will feel like you are getting an ass kicking from a large samoan dude, any guy who ever worked on a car engine will tell you the same thing. Oh and for the record also, most "AC generators" or alternators do have permanent magnets, that is why they are a bitch to turn by hand. you know iron core, magnets, copper coils? you must not be that old, most of us old duds have pulled heaps of them to pieces, hell when we were kids we did it to get the magnets.