Something that I need to bring to attention...

[wattsup]

The cost of gasoline versus water. There is no comparison in cost when you equate the value of;

- losing an animal species
- global warming
- pollution
- human sicknesses caused by car exhaust
- wars caused by big oil
- the fact that gasoline is not more then 30% efficient
- the economies of the world are dying under high gas prices
- and to much more to mention.................

When you equate all the above into joules, you are probably at a million to 1 in favor of water.

[shruggedatlas]

OK I see.  Well, if the economics works out, great.

[Bulbz]

OK I see.  Well, if the economics works out, great.

There may just be a chance of turning you into a HHO nut after all  .

[Earl]

> So what I want to know is, what makes "the people that know",
> so sure that water cannot be a fuel ?

If you ask the wrong question, you will get the wrong answer.

The correct question is:
for how long will I be able to use water as a fuel?

The answer is very simple and logical. 
You will be able to use water as fuel:

1- as long as you want, *** IF *** someone invents a method to disassociate water using 5 to 10 times less energy than Faraday *** AND *** this makes it into the market place.

or

2- until no later than 2020-2025, if you and your family have not yet died of starvation.
Contrary to popular layman's belief, the oil producers will turn off their pumps when the joules necessary to pump it, transport it, refine it, distribute it are more than what is obtained by burning it.  This is purely a mathematical equation and the oil producers are already well aware when they need to stop pumping.  There are no dollars and cents involved in this equation, only joules.  All of the energy-easy obtainable oil has already been pumped and burned, from now on energy costs for each barrel will rise.  Saudia Arabia can only keep production up by pumping immense quantities of sea water into their fields, and today every barrel that reaches the surface contains 65% sea water and rising.  You can imagine that this will not continue for much longer.  Globally all oil pumps will have been turned off by roughly 2020-2025 as the joules on both sides of the equation become equal.  There will still be lots and lots of oil in the ground, but it is the energy equation that commands.  Get it into your head that economics and money do not determine when the oil pumps must be turned off.

With no hydrocarbons, there will be no vehicles running on water, period.  What little renewable energy is available will certainly not be wasted on disassociating water.  The HHO nuts will finally understand energy in versus energy out, as they starve to death while watching a tractor standing still in the fields.

The sh!t is going to hit the fan LONG before 2020-2025, so now you know why you all have the feeling that things are getting worse, but the average person still does not realize how catastrophic things really are.

Nature will easily solve the problem of no replacement for hydrocarbon energy by starving 8 billion people to death, bringing Earth back to equilibrium.  With the exception of Cuba, most soils have been poisoned
with fertilizers and pesticides so Nature will have it easy. 

Droughts are becoming common because the planet is heating up and because so many trees are being cut down and sickly from hydrocarbon pollution.  An average tree evaporates 13000 liters each day into the atmosphere.  At the rate mankind is destroying trees, don't be surprised if rain and water become scarce.  Spending a trillion dollars on a war instead of using it to plant a billion trees is insane. 

Stupidity is very expensive, and now the bill is being brought to the table.

To avert disaster, a totally renewable energy economy will have to be completely introduced into the infrastructure and up and running *** BEFORE *** Hubbert's peak.  Unfortunately, this peak has already happened, probably 2005-2007.  As Napoleon Bonaparte said in 1793 "The great majority of men attend to what is necessary only when they feel a need for it - precisely the time when it is too late."

People who understand this do not post much because they are too busy trying to find a solution.  I suggest that everyone try to use their time as productively as possible instead of arguing and trying to win a pissing contest.  Unless you are an elder, when you shave in the morning you are looking at someone that has a high probability of starving long before the next decade is finished.  As of May 2008 there is no solution, so get your ass moving, either alone or in collaboration with others; there is no time to waste.  Tell everyone you know that you most immediately important thing to do is conserve energy and potable water.  If everyone would drastically reduce their consumption it would bring more time until the crunch arrives or a solution is found.

or

3- an electrical OU device is found, so that overly energy-expensive electrolysis can be tolerated during a transition period to electric motors.

Earl

"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

[Feynman]

Naw it's good we have people like ShruggedAtlas around,  a dose of skepticism is healthy and helps to better understanding.


I've been looking into these HHO systems lately, and another thing I realized is that they allow complete combustion of the existing gasoline mixture, which can generate additional output.  I think the trick here will be to do some research involving gas evolution based on input voltage and pulse frequency.

The best system I have found is "smack's" HHO system, which seems to be the best point of departure for further research.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.html