Johann Bessler information

[fletcher]

A further thought in that context hans & john - the pantograph is similar to the variations of the 'A's drawn in MT - as you know Bessler, while numbering & lettering his designs in MT, uses two styles of 'A's throughout his series - sometimes he uses them as you see them now [standard font] & then suddenly he changes to the pantograph looking versions [with the drop v cross-bar instead of the -- cross-bar] & they interchange throughout without seeming pattern.

It is also probably no coincidence that the pantograph form looks very much like a section of storksbill or scissor lift or jack section.

[Alexioco]

A further thought in that context hans & john - the pantograph is similar to the variations of the 'A's drawn in MT - as you know Bessler, while numbering & lettering his designs in MT, uses two styles of 'A's throughout his series - sometimes he uses them as you see them now [standard font] & then suddenly he changes to the pantograph looking versions [with the drop v cross-bar instead of the -- cross-bar] & they interchange throughout without seeming pattern.

It is also probably no coincidence that the pantograph form looks very much like a section of storksbill or scissor lift or jack section.

Fletcher, very very clever, spot on my friend, spot on, I noticed his A's too and couldn't understand why he wrote them like he did, you are absolutely right there, I think you have just hit on something big which will help me and other people and yourself to get closer to his wheel, I'm so impressed with what you just said...

I came up with this about a month ago, could this be some way he used it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvcmhDQCqNk

Its not quite the same but...

[utilitarian]

I have a feeling that little is known here about Johann Bessler, also known as Orffyreus, so I will just say that further information is available from www.free-energy.co.uk.  This web site which has been on-line since 1997 is the result of a lifetime of research into the life of the inventor.  I have tried to spread information about him but it is a slow process and time is short with the incredible rising oil prices.

John Collins

It's great that you compiled this info about Bessler, but your conclusions could not be more wrongheaded:

http://www.free-energy.co.uk/html/why_gravitywheels_work.HTM

You basically state that because wind and water are conservative forces, and they can be used to drive a wheel, then so can gravity.

Well, water and wind are not conservative forces.  You are dealing with streams of molecules in motion, which have kinetic energy, and that kinetic energy can be transferred to a wheel.  This is fundamentally different from conservative forces such as gravity, elastic, or magentism.  Everything you conclude is based on this flawed assumption.  Sure, you can write volumes based on this one flawed assumption, and everything would seem really rosy, until you actually try to make something work.

[John Collins]

I used wind and water as analogies for gravity, utilitarian.  My point is that even though they are not regarded as conservative forces, as gravity is, they act like conservative forces.  Conservative forces are measured by the work the force does on an object in moving it from A to B and the path is independent or irrelevant.  This is so in gravity and in the wind and water analogies.

You are saying, in effect, that wind and water forces are non-conservative forces.  In non-conservative (or dissipative) force, the work done in going from A to B depends on the path taken. Examples: friction and air resistance.  Although the wind may dissipate at any time, as long as it continues to blow the windmill reacts to a conservative force.

Yes its true  there are streams of molecules in motion, which have kinetic energy, and that kinetic energy can be transferred to a wheel but this is on a micro(nano) scale whereas we are dealing with straightforward empirical evidence viewable with the naked eye.

Finally I shall be presenting the strongest evidence that Bessler's machine was real and not a fraud, and in that case there will follow discussion about how we can explain it within the laws of physics, and that is what all I am trying to do now.

John

[utilitarian]

My point is that even though they are not regarded as conservative forces, as gravity is, they act like conservative forces.  Conservative forces are measured by the work the force does on an object in moving it from A to B and the path is independent or irrelevant.  This is so in gravity and in the wind and water analogies.

Wind and water are not conservative forces and do not act like conservative forces.  No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

A force is about acceleration.  It is measured in Newtons, and one Newton is equal to the force required to accelerate the mass of 1kg by 1 meter per second, squared.  Neither wind nor water can do this.  All wind and water can do is bring the object they are impacting to a speed equal to the speed of the wind/water, but no faster.

Maybe Bessler had a working wheel, and maybe he didn't, but your theory is not going to explain anything.