Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet

[hartiberlin]

Hi Markus,
but it can multiply signals ?

Don?t you have an invert switch for one of the channels at the input ?
This is sometimes done directly in hardware...

If not, just calculate with the wrong inverted waveform and do a (1-x)
multiply yourself afterwards, this should be probably easy to correct afterwards,
when I am not confused right now ?

[GM]

Hello again,

new scopeshots which shows at least the power consumption of the circuit
measured in watt seconds [I hope ;-)] (voltage * current area for one periode)
(see scope-screen1)


But this time I used a smaller, cubic neodym magnet for the experiment.
Reason for this: I tried to place two of the big magnets near the coil to
see if the effect will become much more significant. But they are to strong
and they attract each other and the core very heavily.

I need 4 hands to manage this setup. And each time the big magnets stick
at the core (whooosh... click) they will nearly "kill" the whole setup - the huge
magnetic force will suppress the magnetic flux of the coil.

But with the smaller magnets it was no problem.
I tried to place the second magnet with the opposite magnetic pole at the
other side of the core. This increases the effect a little bit.
(For example: "current" consumption (voltage over the 1 ohm shunt, see screen 1)
with one magnet was around 120 mV and with the second magnet it drops to approx.
88-90 mV.
But I get the same result when I use only one magnet and place it INTO the toroid
core. (see picture).

So I think this is the optimum related to the magnets placement.
All measures in the following scopeshots are made with this new setup.

Back to the scopeshots:
The power consumption across the the light bulbs cannot be calculated like
in the first screenshot, because of the invertion of one chanel during the
simultanous measuring of current and voltage (see my last post).

Code Select Expand


    Ch1       GND     Ch2
     |         |       |
+ o----#####-----(X)------o -
         R       bulb


But the scopeshots shows the waveforms of current and voltage and on the right
side of the screen the "area" for one periode of each signal in volt per soconds(*).
Maybe one is able to calculate the power (watt) using this two values in any
formula (Stefan, are these values usable in any kind?)
(see scope-screen2)

*) = Bereichsmessung (german explanation of the scopes function "area measurement",
     taken from the scopes manual):
"Eine Messung des Signalbereichs, die in der ausgew?hlten Zone durchgef?hrt wird,
ausgedr?ckt in Voltsekunden. Der Bereich oberhalb des des Erdpotentials ist positiv
und der Bereich unterhalb des Erdpotential ist negativ."



By the way: I also tried two other kind of coils.

1) Same toroid core, but the coil was wound with 1 layer around the complete 360
dergree of the core (instead of 180 degrees of the "original coil")

2) Same toroid core. The coil was wounded only on the half of the core like in
the original experiment, but I wounded 3 layers on it. That means I wound the first
layer on the core from the bottom to the top (180 dgr.), then the wire goes straight
from the top to the bottom of the core where I begung the wounding (yes, 3cm wire
goes directly through/over the middle of the core). Then I wound the next layer
from the bottom to the top - from there going again directly back to bottom and
wound the 3rd. layer.

Testresult: None(!) of this two coils show the effect the original coil will show!!!
(decreasing power consumption while kickback energy will increase with placed magnet)

And also if I use the original coil without the second coil (where the normal powered
light bulb is connected on), the experiment will nevertheless show the effect.

So it seems the effect appears only with 1-layered coils which are wound on one half
of a toroid ferrite core!

Regards, Markus

edit 28.08.2006: gnnrr, there was still a mistake in the paintings. The Ch1/Ch2 labels
were mixed up in the drafts which shows the scope measure-points. sorry...

[GM]

Hi Markus,
but it can multiply signals ?

Don?t you have an invert switch for one of the channels at the input ?
This is sometimes done directly in hardware...

If not, just calculate with the wrong inverted waveform and do a (1-x)
multiply yourself afterwards, this should be probably easy to correct afterwards,
when I am not confused right now ?

No invert switch on the front panel.
This will be done in software. And if I am correct, then this can only be done,
using a calculation on the chanel which have to be inverted and generate a 3rd.
wave with the INV-function. But calculated waves cannot be measured by the
area-function. Only the real chanels.

But I will have a closer look into the manual. Maybe it's nevertheless possible.

Markus

[Jdo300]

Hi Markus,

I have been following the Steve Marks post for quite some time but have just now come across this post. Very interesting!! I was just thinking about how Steve was amplifying the kicks in his device and it *appears* that you have found out the answer. You may want to look up the subject "Magnetic Amplifiers," they are obsolete devices now of days but back in the '50's they used similar setups of both linear and toroidal cores to amplify a small signal into a big one by modifying the saturation of a ferrous core. Speaking of which, I want to duplicate your experiment and was wondering if you still have the contact information for the eBay seller that you got the core from. Also, what gauge wire do you have wound on the core? One more thing too:

- the winding orientation of the primary and secondary coilis not equal, it is oppositional (the coil-orientation painted in the draft is wrong).

What exactly do you mean about the coils being wound oppositional on the core? Do you mean that one is wound clockwise and the other is wound counter-clockwise around the toroid? Have you ever tried the experiment with the coils both wound the same to see if the effect still occurs?

God Bless,
Jason O

[GM]

Hello Jason,

I am elated to hear that someone will reproduce my exepriment!

...core. Speaking of which, I want to duplicate your experiment and was wondering if you still have the contact information for the eBay seller that you got the core from. Also, what gauge wire do you have wound on the core?

Because I am on my allday-job now, I can supply you with this information first this evening.
But I think it is no problem to get the ebay-nick from the seller.

Are you able to do some further measurements on this experiment?
What are your tecnical skills? I ask, because I am only a "low-grade" hobbiest with limited
possibilities.

One more thing too:

- the winding orientation of the primary and secondary coilis not equal, it is oppositional (the coil-orientation painted in the draft is wrong).

What exactly do you mean about the coils being wound oppositional on the core? Do you mean that one is wound clockwise and the other is wound counter-clockwise around the toroid? Have you ever tried the experiment with the coils both wound the same to see if the effect still occurs?

The experiement begun as a normal transformation using a pulse generator.
But I find out that the secondary coil is not necessary. So you dont need this second coil to
replicate the effect.

But to answer your question: Yes, I meant that one coil is wound clockwise and the other is wound
counter-clockwise around the toroid. And no, I never tried to change the direction of the secondary coil.

I wish you much success with the replication of this experiment.
I hope we see your results here too.

More informations about the used wire and the core comes this evening.

Oh, still one thing: I use a square wave generator with variable duty cycle of the impulse.
You have to play a bit with the frequency and the duty cycle to find a setting which
shows the maximum effect. I think this depends of the corematerial the core dimension and
the count of turns of the wire.
If I tune the generator above 25 KHz the voltages will break down dramaticly. 15.7 KHz is
a quite good frequence for my setup.

Regards, Markus