Self Rising Weight (MT 27)

[utilitarian]

Well you tell me this then, How can one possibly rule out the universe just like that, scientists say we have evolved from apes which is absolutely rubbish, total nonsense, just look what parrots can do, they can mimic people, I don't see chimps doing that, also scientists say that we came from thin air, No, it took a power and very high intelligence to make us so I?m not going to trust scientist when they say perpetual motion is impossible either, yes some are clever and right what they say, but science cannot prove everything but a creative mind can take one step further just like Einstein said "imagination is more important than knowledge  "

Let me see if I have this straight.  You do not believe we evolved from apes.  Fine.  (Evolution scientists do not say this either.  We and the apes evolved from a common ancestor.)  But whatever, there are gaps in fossil records, so fine.  But you do believe that we evolved from parrots just because parrots can imitate the human voice?  Say what, Willis? 

Really, all you had to say is that you were an Intelligent Design proponent.  That explains everything.  Good luck with your Jesus wheel.

[WilbyInebriated]

this is how he knows...

[gwhy!]

but how do you know ?

this is how he knows...

Oh right so he was told this was the case then and he didnt work it out for himself. From the way he was speaking I thought he had all the answers. 

[utilitarian]

but how do you know ?

How do I know?  Here is an analogy.

You watch a performer.  The performer shows you an empty cup and five dice in his hand.  He invites you to examine the cup, which looks empty, the dice, which look normal, and his hands, which are empty.

The performer puts 5 dice in the cup and shakes the cup vigorously for a long time, a whole minute.  He shakes to the left, he shakes to the right, he shakes it all around.  Then he smacks the cup face down on the table, lifts it up, and lo and behold, there are six dice there.

Now, what happened?  One of several things.  Maybe there was a secret compartment in the cup.  Maybe he dropped a die from his sleeve and slipped it into the cup.  Maybe the table had a secret compartment and spit out an extra die.  Who knows for sure?  One thing we do know is that a die did not spontaneously appear from the magic shake.

Oh, and this magic trick happened 400 years ago.  So all we have are written accounts from the people who examined the cup at the time.  We do not have the actual cup, table or magician.

Oh, and the magician got mad when people kept trying to find out the secret of the trick, so he burned all his records before his death.

Now, someone can spend their entire lifetime trying to imitate the magic cup shake, making sure you shake 3 to the left and 2 to the right and so forth, or you can just say it was a trick.

[gwhy!]

How do I know?  Here is an analogy.
..................

Now, what happened?  One of several things.  Maybe there was a secret compartment in the cup.  Maybe he dropped a die from his sleeve and slipped it into the cup.  Maybe the table had a secret compartment and spit out an extra die.  Who knows for sure?  One thing we do know is that a die did not spontaneously appear from the magic shake.

Thats right "Who knows for sure" indeed. And your quite right about the One thing we do know is that a die did not spontaneously appear from the magic shake BUT if you would like to perform this trick then you would go out your way to find out the way it was done. I dont think this was a very good analogy to be honest.

the original question "how do you know?" was really intendend for this statement you made " because that is how everything in the universe works." what perhaps you should have said was " because that is our understanding at the current moment on how everything in the universe works."