URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE

[nul-points]

hi Luc

[i've just seen we've cross-posted again     - yeah, no probs about the thread results - i'm a hands-on guy too actually - the lack of pictures on the thread is mostly because a photo of a capacitor in a plugboard charging to a few volts is not the most interesting image in the world! - my website with the collected info has scope traces of the input, switched  & output voltages & circuit diagrams - the calcs are necessary to show that the output energy converted by the circuit is 120% of the energy supplied by the input cap]

thanks for the additional vid at higher quality - it's in the process of downloading now (8 mins left)

while it's downloading, i think i have time to say that if your circuit is:-

  AC  -> Full-Wave Recitfier -> Relay -> Coil -> Capacitor (or some variant of that connection)

  then i think the high voltage spikes could be caused mostly by coil flyback voltage when the relay cuts out each time - you'd get a variety of max voltages shown because the input to the coil-cap arrangement is not pure DC - it's varying repetitively between 0 & the peak of the rectified 120V AC (ie. 168V - as shown by your DVM)

when you manually switch the relay you'll sometimes catch the input waveform at high enough input value to give you larger readings (and very rarely, you'll catch it on or close to the 0V point - in which case the output will be 0V or close, too)

at the moment i'm thinking that what you're seeing is mostly the voltage magnification effect caused by switching-off current thro' the coil - IF the circuit is just the elemnts i mentioned above

you could try a slight mod which would help confirm this:
  connect a second capacitor after the diode bridge rectifier but before the relay - that way the input voltage would be constant (around 168V) and then you should see that your output max voltages become more regular

of course, if the relay is only manually switched on-off, then you are varying the on-time of the coil-charging, and with the large coil you have this could give you different amounts of energy in the coil each time - leading to different max voltage spikes at flyback

so a further mod you could make to get the input energy even more regular, would be to trigger the relay from a one-shot pulse circuit (monostable) which would always switch the relay on for the same period regardless of how long you held it's input in the 'on' state

hope this helps

[the vid download has failed, so i'm restarting.... if i get a chance to view it before i have to leave for work i'll reply soon - otherwise i'll have to get back to you tonight (UK time)]

[late edit: - download just completed & only playing as audio content with my current codecs - i'll try & download a suitable codec tonight when i get back & have a look in better detail. 

you say the max rvalue on that DVM range setting is 999V, so maybe the extra digit i'm seeing is the '-' sign - could be a transient overload conditon, so the max voltage could still be going greater than 1000V - i'll get a better look later hopefully.

if you're intending to switch the cap in the same way (ie thro a relay) & manually, i'd recommend those two mods i mentioned above to make the operation more repeatable - and ensure you're getting the max voltage on the cap each time - there are other ways to switch at peak AC input but those mentioned are pretty easy to implement]

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

[nul-points]

hi Luc

...gotta go - but just managed to capture this off the original vid - can't see a decimal point on the display, but your earlier static 168V reading is using 3 digits so that's why i'm thinking this is over 1000V (or an overload - which means it's higher than 600 - possibly higher than 999)

i'll get a new codec tonight & look at the higher-res vid

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

[Kator01]

Hello Luc,

It would helpful if you could make a simple hand-drawing of the complete circuit so that we are not left speculating on this effect. It is important to knwo the exact figures of your leading coil ( L in Henry ), the max switch-amperage and volatage of the relais, values of the HV-Diodes and inductance of the primary ingnition-coil.

Also any digital-meter fails in showing the exact values while measuring pulse-modes. Although I accept your reluctance to get a bit more "scientific" I can assure you that it is very important to learn the minimum of methods known in electronics. I myself have lost a lage amount of time in "barking at the wrong tree" - so to say.

I agree on what nul-point was saying about your observation.

Input current is measured best be detecting the voltage-drop across a low-value resistor ( 1 Ohm, 25 Watt ) either with a true RMS meter in AC-mode before the rectifier or in DC-mode after the rectifier.

The link fo yours above does not work today, its says the server lead the enquiery around somewhere so it can never be answered

Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.

Kator

[nul-points]

hi Luc

...managed to get a schematic of the suggestions together in my lunch-break...

as an alternative to flyback diode protection across the inductor to reduce contact wear on the relay, you could try placing one or more HV diodes D2 (enough to cope with the required peak flyback voltage) as shown in the schematic

the supply end of the coil pulses negative each switch-off and so a diode polarised as shown will enable the flyback energy to flow thro' the coil, adding into the cap with the charge you've just switched in

looking at the diode/coil junction voltage on a scope will show there is only a minimal voltage spike being captured - this is true: the diode limits the spike to its forward voltage - BUT the current is NOT limited - the flyback energy does get transferred

...just one of the 'practical' things i learned from my switched charge experiments 

the supply filter/'smoothing' cap C1 may need some series resistance to reduce in-rush current when first powering up - you'ld need to experiment to find the best value for C1 - and the best RC time constant (if R1 is also used) which enables C1 to recharge in the required inter-spark period

choice of R1 will be a compromise between limiting in-rush current & getting an acceptable C1 recharge time


useful points above by Kator - Luc, you're in good hands with support like you're getting on this thread!


hope these suggestions help

all the best
sandy

PS thanks to NerzhDishual for access to the circuit-drawing App

Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

[allcanadian]

@Kator01

Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.

Personally I don't take very many measurements as they tend to be misleading in most cases with the circuits in question. I prefer understanding the qualities of the components over measurement, in the case of an inductive discharge the voltage can pass through a coil (analog meter) with little or no reaction while a digital meter will show only remnants of an impulse that has already passed and any measurement depends on the components of the meter itself. One misunderstanding concerns the inductance itself, if we consider an inductance as having inertia or momentum then it should be obvious that two forces must develop when the source current is removed from an inductance. One force compresses ahead of the inductance producing high potentials in an infinitely small time frame, the other force expands behind the inductance producing high potentials in an infinitely small time frame. This is something I do not think you will ever measure accurately to any degree, you have to "know" what is happening through understanding the qualities of the components and the ways energy can be transformed. It may be helpfull to understand that the two forces produced in an inductive discharge ( Compression-Expansion ) can be seperated to some extent and produce reactions in and of themselves if certain criteria are met. To prove this fact we can use an ignition coil to raise the potential of the source current, the ignition coil will discharge (arc) to the (+) source terminal, it will discharge to the (-) source terminal, it will also discharge to the metallic end of a screwdriver or any metal object having no relation to the circuit producing the discharge. But we should remember that if we believe that a compression must also be balanced by an expansion as we see everywhere in nature then this arc discharge to the screwdrivers metal end only represents one half of the energy present.