new 50 plate emd graphite cell very expensive!

[clarence1984]

I have included a fast hand sketch of this I'll make this system a little better sketched out in paint later but this is just for shits and giggles.  Here you all go ask questions as needed.  I'll do my best to answer them in a timely manner. 

http://www.beawindhog.com/images/sketch.jpg

This system does better than any system I have seen so far. 

By the way from the day I first plugged this cell in (even with 2 cups of salt) this cell doesn't make any water pollution.  There is no burn in time or anything like that such as with stainless cells.  That is why I chose emd graphite.

[HeairBear]

WOW! do you have a picture or video of this making bubbles? I may be a wussy but storing Hydrogen is scary. How would you pressurize it and store it safely? Wont the feds wanna know why you have a big tic-tac in your yard?

[ggx9]

Hi Clarence198,

A couple years ago I worked at a place that had 20 EDM (electronic discharge machining) machines. I did the repairs on these machines so I was quite familiar with the operation. They used various types of electrodes including copper and also graphite. I think this is the graphite you are referring to, EDM grade. Correct me if I am wrong.
I was thinking of using a similar approach. However, due to the high cost of the graphite, I would like to consider it only for the anode (oxygen) where corrosion is a much bigger factor than at the cathode (hydrogen) and maybe 316 stainless sheets for the cathode. I built a spiral wound one quart jar as per Ozzie Freedoms
http://www.overunity.com/hho.htm
instructions with 316L (MIG welding wire, .035 inch diameter) and ran it overnight (one teaspoon of baking soda in R.O. water, 12 PPM TDS at 1.1 amps with two such jars in series on a car battery with the battery charger connected). With about 12 hours running the anode became quite rusted and the cathode remained fresh. I was looking at the Mcmaster-Carr website for the graphite, but it did not refer to an EDM grade. Still expensive tho.
What is the length, width and thickness of your graphite plates? Some people are making units similar in size and shape to a car battery and then moving the battery to the trunk and putting the hydrogen cell where the battery was supposing its better to have an accidental explosion under the hood than the trunk.

Richard

[clarence1984]

My apologies everyone I was referring too edm grade graphite I know what it means it was simply a typo (type way to fast) but these are various thicknesses because it's all I could get for the price from the company that supplied me.  There are actually 25 plates that are 7x6x1/8" and 25 that are 7x6x1/4" they are not all cut perfect some are slightly larger than others but I couldn't complain when they gave me 25 percent off if took all of them.  EDM graphite doesn't have to be expensive if you want to experiment with edm get a small electrode on ebay here's the link

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-EDM-EMD-CARBON-GRAPHITE-5-8-ROUND-STOCK-ELECTRODE-12_W0QQitemZ360007496350QQihZ023QQcategoryZ104237QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

what what I have seen I couldn't get away with anything other than graphite.  The reason is that it won't last long.  With a graphite EDM rod inside 9021 aluminum which is the kind they build ocean boats out of.  I was able to get about 3months of solid run time before the aluminum was no longer working to at least 50 percent capability with stainless 316l I was able to get about 6 months before it was totally dissolved and working at less than 50 percent capability.  I have done the homework.  I have been doing this for a few years now.   Graphite is the only way.  I hooked up my first two 4x4" graphite plates and put them on my 12 volt power supply about 11 months ago and it's still going they look just as good as the day I put them in there.  This is all with a 3.75l (one gallon) container fixed current and voltage 12vdc 2amp with 10 grams of salt  Electro-cavition isn't a joke why build something that won't make a year.  Now see there is two simple ways around this. 
Use loctite professional grade epoxy and mix in graphite electrode millings (finely ground) until a paste is formed.  Poor it in a wax mold.  Let it dry over night and then heat to 900 degrees the epoxy will burn and fuse the graphite particles together.  I get about 1-2ohms of resistance per 1" squared.  The powder is so cheap you can get like a 50 pound box for about 25 bucks.   That is enough to make about 250 plates.
Or simply stick to distilled water and stainless 316l I have one test unit that's been running for about 2 years now however no catalyst can be added or it won't last.  Sorry to blabber guys I just wanted to give some ideas and some help. 


On another note the lawton and meyers idea was close to creating a very efficient cell.  There is no way to get something from nothing.  I honestly believe I have the most efficient cell you'll find anywhere.  Also mine will outlive any cell on here or any other site.  I'm expecting a 50 year lifespan to it.  Then i'll simply saw the plates apart and rewire and put the cell back together.  A tip for those using stainless don't go straight for biggest amount of bubbles that is not the key.  The key is efficiency.  Stainless 316l in distilled water can work as a cheap testing platform.  An easy way to get resonance in your cell is to way the tubes or plates make sure they way all the same inner and outer pipes.  Cut them as needed.  Use a computer and a car amp most people have both or can get both very cheaply.  Once you find that sweet spot with the frequency you want to get the water as hot as possible if your making a ton of steam it's ok make a mini condensate tank don't forget the condensate return.  Now you see your output should have doubled.  Now add a vacuum pump to the output of the condensate tank and watch it double again.  You will never get more out than your putting in but you can absorb surrounding energy in the form of heat. 
So your saying that works fine and dandy for a car but what about a home.

Here's the trick.  Solar heating. Heat the water with a solar heater.  Make sure to power the cell and amp with your wind turbine I sell them or you can buy one anywhere. 

I'm sick of listening to people complaining about heating and transportation fuel.  There is an easy alternative. 

On another note :  I'll just keep writing my memoirs here lol. The thermodynamics of hho/brown's gas is better for my home natural gas heater it likes it alot better.  Natural gas when burned causes alot of water inside the fire chamber so the fire chamber can handle the water from burned hho.  My heater heats a pipe that blows air into my house and that's how it heats.  The heater produces hotter heat doesn't burn through the pipe either as long as the blower is working.  But there is a thermal switch to click off the fuel valve in the event it gets to hot.  So no worries.  I bought this heater 35,000btu on ebay for 450 last year.  Works like a charm.  It requires about 500ma to run the blower.  The heater works more efficiently as it heats up about twice as fast as with natural gas doesn't give off emissions.  So it turns on half the time it used to.  Also this is plumbed into my tankless hot water heater, gas dryer and stove top.  This isn't just a cheaper solution to natural gas but it's good for the earth people.  I am sick of the people saying well i'm not saving all that much.  As far as I'm concerned even if i paid slightly more i'm not contributing to war or pollution who cares. 


My final thought.  The above reply from richard mentioned the price of edm. We can make this dirt cheap.  Ultra fine ground edm quality powder can be mixed with a adhesive and sprayed onto sheets of plastic to form these plates as well.  Depending on the adhesive it should last for at least 20 years or a great vehicles lifespan.       

Come on people spit some questions.  Let's converse!  I'll help supply cheap alternatives and easy construction ideas to people interested in converting there lives one small piece of paycheck at a time.  I'm not looking to make profit.  I only make 25 bucks a wind turbine at my site so don't think I'm selling junk on here.  I'm simply sucking up miles on my cc and paying the finance charges.   

[Yucca]

Hi Clarence1984,

Wow... nice stack of graphite there! And some great ideas on making cheaper plates using EDM powder. Seems like graphite is the best way to go!

You said you listen on mic port for resonance of the cell, I thought of doing something similar using a gas flow rate device to sample the cell output rate. I think a good flow rate device can be made by IR TX/RX diodes looking through a relatively thin (maybe 20mm) bubbler tube, or you could use green LED looking through red dyed water in the tube and reading with another green LED (yes a normal LED can be used as a receiver). But I'm sure resonance will give the most gas production so my idea is a bit long winded.

I'm sure you already know but... Careful... storing HHO in a pressure vessel is VERY dangerous as it can ignite and explode without needing a vent. If you could seperate the hydrogen and oxygen and store seperately then that would be much safer. I think there's a patent out there somewhere that describes how to seperate hydrogen and oxygen in the cell as its electrolysing using magnets?