Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !

[Dingus Mungus]

When you want to add something like that you need to consider how many watts of power it consumes. What would be the advantages of its use? Is it really needed?

Using part of the power output for zinc anode regeneration hurts right off the top. Anything else added only makes things less efficient.

Thanks for your input darc.

it was just an idea as you said earlier you had to disassemble the cell to clean it. when it runs properly it may have some residue inside that needs removing so if lets say this cell was used to charge a big battery bank and it became eventually gummed up (may be this happens??) then rather than take it all apart you could just zap it with some ultra sound. just a maintainance issue if it ever arises in the future. i like automatic stuff lol
darc

Eventually the walls will be zinc... The outside walls of the solid zinc reactor plated in aluminum. Then theres no problem with zincate build ups, and the greater enveloping Al surface area should aid in the catalyzed reduction effect. There will be no need for moving parts, trust us. Once the materials research is worked out it will be self contained, and since it requires such a low reduction voltage in our experiments, solar will be way more than adequate for any extra reduction cycles we may need, but I have a feeling that Dr griffin is also not done revealing his work yet. I have a feeling there already exists a cell thats in ballance. One that needs only water...

Sorry, went off on a little day dream there...
It'll be a long journey, but we're already on the right path.

~Dingus Mungus

[ResinRat2]

I know I've been experimenting with the aluminum/zinc angle quite a bit lately, and I have not had a great deal of luck using the aluminum. Initially it starts to regenerate the zinc electrode, but then I found that the entire zinc surface becomes covered with the zincates, and it stops the reaction.

I've also been using rotating zinc/aluminum electrodes to try and only partially regenerate each zinc electrode so it doesn't kill the reaction; but I found that even after the aluminum is removed the zincate plating continues. Then the cell begins to fill with precipitate as the hydrogen is produced. It's really strange. One cell became half full with precipitate and started to actually be overfilled with the water solution as the precipitate was formed. One almost overflowed before I dumped it.

I think the key here is to generate the oxygen and seperate it from the zinc oxide or zinc hydroxide compounds. That needs to be done more efficiently with electrical energy.

I will be doing more experiments along this angle, but my initial goal is to use two fuel cells. One higher voltage that the other. The smaller cell only produces about 0.9 volts (300mA) and is probably enough to do the zinc regeneration on its own. That way no fancy electronics would be needed.

So much to explore, so little time. I need a research lab and some technicians!!!! LOL!!!

Thanks for your interest everyone.

[dutchy1966]

Hi ResinRat2, everyone,

I've been following your developments from the sideline and must say you and the others that helped along did do a very neat job. I've also recently studied the Griffin patent. (As far as I can understand the chemical explanations...lol).
After doing this a couple og questions still remained and maybe you're willing to answer them.
First, I saw that you have a tank with two seperate chambers (hydrogen and oxygen side). The patent only uses one chamber. Is there any particular reason you are seperating the hydrogen and oxygen?
Second, if I was to build a cell too what would be the best design based on the experiences you have so far? I think it might be a good idea if you could supply everyone with a sort of standard design for the cell, so that in time we can compare results?
And last, I read your reaction medium isn a total of 100 ml right? I guess this is then mixed int the water that has to be consumed? How big is your cell or how much water/reaction medium is in it?

Hope this is not too much newbie questions for you......anyway keep us posted on your progress and good luck with the research...it's well appreciated!

Regards,

Robert

[ResinRat2]

Hi Robert,

I will try to answer your questions:

First, I saw that you have a tank with two separate chambers (hydrogen and oxygen side). The patent only uses one chamber. Is there any particular reason you are separating the hydrogen and oxygen? Good question Robert, let me explain. In the patent you can see that the general trend is simply the production of hydrogen. This is where the emphasis lies. If all you are interested in is producing hydrogen then all you need is one chamber. The oxygen in the reaction combines with the zinc forming zinc oxides and hydroxides (in the basic NaOH cell) and does not come off as readily as the hydrogen. In this case the zinc is consumed and eventually depleted. The patent does mention that you can put a reverse current on the electrodes and regenerate the zinc. This will then give off the oxygen and replate the zinc on the zinc electrode; but when this is being done then no hydrogen is being produced. So the design of the cell in the patent produces either hydrogen OR oxygen. Not both in large quantities at the same time.

My cell is designed with two separate tungsten carbide electrodes and two separate zinc electrodes. The tungsten carbide electrodes in one chamber, and the zinc electrodes in the other. The idea is that a reverse current can be put on one T/C - Zinc pair of electrodes to regenerate the zinc and produce oxygen at the same time that the other T/C - zinc pair of electrodes is producing hydrogen. So my cell will produce hydrogen and oxygen at the same time. All this going on, I need to keep the oxygen from getting into the fuel cell, so I need to separate the chambers. The idea for this is that there will be no need for a period of time when the cell produces hydrogen and power from the fuel cell, then a period where it produces oxygen and no power from the fuel cell. It will be a constant output of power from the hydrogen, and a constant zinc regeneration at the same time. See how this will work? I would just switch the zinc electrode connections once per day so no single zinc electrode gets depleted. So it should be a constant runner. No separate regeneration time needed.

Second, if I was to build a cell too what would be the best design based on the experiences you have so far? I think it might be a good idea if you could supply everyone with a sort of standard design for the cell, so that in time we can compare results? I am still trying to work out the best plexiglass design. I am coming to the conclusion that the electrodes need to be in a verticle position (not horizontal like I have now). This is because I am getting gas trapped in the horizontal spaces and it is hurting my gas output. So I think a cell is best designed with the up and down length much greater than the width, with the chambers separated by a barrier that keeps the gases from mixing. The one I have now has a series of holes that form a U shape between the chambers; unfortunately I am still getting mixing of gases. I will draw a diagram soon to show you what I plan on doing next. It will be one big U shape, not a series of smaller U shapes like I have now. Other than that, the reactor design is still up in the air.

And last, I read your reaction medium isn a total of 100 ml right? I guess this is then mixed int the water that has to be consumed? How big is your cell or how much water/reaction medium is in it? My cell holds 400ml of total electrolyte solution. which is 80 grams NaOH, 80 grams KOH, 80ml of 20ppm Silver colloid, 40ml of 20ppm Magnesium Colloid, and enough Deionized or distilled water added to this mixture to give a total solution volume of 400ml.

Hope this is not too much newbie questions for you......anyway keep us posted on your progress and good luck with the research...it's well appreciated! Will do. Hope this helps. I will post the diagram soon of a probable improved cell, although I am still going to be using this present cell for my long term testing.

[dutchy1966]

My cell is designed with two separate tungsten carbide electrodes and two separate zinc electrodes. The tungsten carbide electrodes in one chamber, and the zinc electrodes in the other. The idea is that a reverse current can be put on one T/C - Zinc pair of electrodes to regenerate the zinc and produce oxygen at the same time that the other T/C - zinc pair of electrodes is producing hydrogen. So my cell will produce hydrogen and oxygen at the same time. All this going on, I need to keep the oxygen from getting into the fuel cell, so I need to separate the chambers. The idea for this is that there will be no need for a period of time when the cell produces hydrogen and power from the fuel cell, then a period where it produces oxygen and no power from the fuel cell. It will be a constant output of power from the hydrogen, and a constant zinc regeneration at the same time. See how this will work? I would just switch the zinc electrode connections once per day so no single zinc electrode gets depleted. So it should be a constant runner. No separate regeneration time needed.

Hi Resinrat,

Thanks for explaining the above. It is pretty clear to me now why and how you want to do this. I've gone through the whole patent again and it all gets quite clear now. I still wonder about two things though..... (if I'm allowed )
In the original setup as proposed by Dr. Griffin, either the zinc anode has to be replaced or it has to be regenerated, right? In the first case, where you would replace the anode, wouldn't that leave residue (zincates?) in the reaction medium and evt. spoil the medium???
If this is the case then we can only go the path of regenerating the zinc anode.... This then brings me to my second question, does the regenaration of the anode cost less power then the power you received from the cell?

something else.... I was thinking about your idea of regenerating one anode while the other one is used in producing hydrogen. Will the current that you put in the reaction medium to restore the zinc not interfere with the hydrogen producing process on the other cathode/anode set? I mean you're putting a reversed potential on the cell, will the result not be zero because there will be hardly any current flow?
I'm not sure of this but maybe it is somehow an idea to do this across two seperate cells. That is..... use the second anode/cathode pair to regenerate a anode in a separate second cell (not producing hydrogen at that time).

Sorry again for all the questions I put upon you but I'm really trying to catch up with you and the others and like to build my own cell in a while.....

Regards

Robert