HHO electrodes - stainless vs nickel vs platinum

[ydeardorff]

I'm an aircraft sheet metal and composite technician by trade (20 years - US Navy Retired).
The corrosion cell, and metal properties have been my job during that time. My job was to "prevent" the corrosion of aluminum aircraft in the salty environment of our oceans. which ironically lends itself to this application perfectly.

I have personally tested the following metals for the purpose of electrolysis:
(12VDC 2amp battery tender used for power supply)
Navy Brass
All grades of aluminum
Mild Steel
High carbon steel
Aircraft grade stainless steel
Nickel
Copper
Tungsten
Titanium
Bronze
Gold
Silver
Platinum
Carbon
inconel

What I found was any metal with a high corrodability placed in the Cathodes position disintegrated quickly but reacted very well. Some metals worked better as anodes vs cathodes. Production was notably different. Titanium has little if any response in either position as compared to other metals. This is probably due to its inherent stability as a metal with no discernible corrosive by-product.

After talking with a couple electro-chemists, and some metallurgists I was informed that using stainless steel produces Hexavelant Chromates (bad ju-ju). It can be reduced with varying methods, but cannot be stopped as part of this process.
Nickel, is also a naturally poisonous material to humans, but supposedly can be used in the Anodes position with little effect on precipitants into the water.

Talk to a chemist, or an electro-chemist, ask pointed questions on the process. Just because you get a great reaction with a certain metal, doesn't mean its safe to use. Some metal to electrolyte combinations result is dangerous gases and poisonous materials being released into the electrolyte. So careful attention to detail is needed in cell construction. I like to think of the end product first. "what will I do with the used electrolyte?" "will it need to be treated as haz-mat?"

Some metals produce a higher quality of gas than others. This has to do with the periodic table, and their physical make up, not brute force electrolysis. Pouring 50 amps into these cells isn't the answer, any more than it is practical.
yes, an easy place to get platinum, I hear you can tear apart old used hard drives, and the platters are plated with it supposedly. The plating is VERY thin, so you would need to keep your voltage down per reaction face in your wet/dry cell, otherwise you'll discharge the coating off of the platter leaving only a thin aluminum plate behind which wont last long. I have no way of proving this. But I have a platter out and have tested it in normal tap water.

But, a recent discovery I found on hydrogen fuel cell electrodes has led to new electrode materials that use 30% less energy to the same reaction of current cells. The materials are only $11, .50 cents per ounce rather than $1700 and $850 per ounce respectively. I am currently looking into sources to procure these materials.

To better understand what were doing in these cells (if you haven't already) read up on the "corrosion cell", "electro-chemical potentials of metals", and "half reactions".

Those reads are the fundamentals of what we are doing with these cells. Knowledge is power, and safety. To me it makes no sense to make a "green device" that save on fuel/energy consumption, yet produces toxic waste.

I started working on these cells about 2 years ago. I hopefully should have all the materials together for a full flow, gas separator dry cell by next month, and Ill start working on construction once the materials arrive.
I came up with the design by studying hydrogen fuel cells and their inner working/materials.

I'm not proclaiming to be all knowledgeable here in anyway. I have been studying this process for two years. I have been taking my experience, and thoughts to professors while I'm studying for my degree in engineering. I am simply passing on what I have learned, or at least a portion of it. So please don't blast me... LOL

i think this science is just the tip of the ice berg on what hydrogen can do productively.

[ydeardorff]

Heres a video,

I used a platinum coated hard drive platter, and a piece of aircraft grade stainless steel. I laid two strips of electrical tape on them(stacked on each side), to separate them.
The water is straight out of the faucet tap water I measured the temp to be 112 degrees F.
My power supply was a 240 watt power supply, and I was using the 12VDC circuit (yellow wires)

I placed the gap very close to show it works only. As a matter of fact the bubbles that collected made some entertaining cracks loud enough to get the attention of my 16 y/o daughter.

Anyways heres the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJjmE0eVE4&feature=youtu.be

[threshie3]

Hello ydeardorff;

I think that your input on platinum electrodes is fascinating, it seems to be the best metal for conductivity and corrosion resistance.

How is your development and research going?

Are you going to be testing a cell soon?

Might you build them if you do have success with your prototype(s)?

Do you 'currently' think that platinum deposition on a titanium plate substrate is an ideal solution for anode and cathode? Is vacuum deposition of Pt going to stand up to moderate amperage's in a cell?

Sorry for the grilling, but your experience and interest in this is significant. Thanks and keep posting.

Phil

[ydeardorff]

Platinum, is not cost effective, but yes makes a great electrode. Thats why its used in fuel cells, and why fuels cells cost a lot of money.

I have been taking a lot of classes while Im in college that revolve around this, or cover items that pertain to this project. Much more thought is need into  what metals want to do at the atomic level, why some corrode faster than others, and what their chemical potential is.

Im straying away from platinum myself, and moving toward other metals, and elements that are more reactive, and readily produce hydrogen. Im also experimenting with other non traditional electrolytes that contain more H moles, than water. such as pure glucose. If their is more to grab per molecule, their may be better production. Chemistry, and the periodic table are key points to master in this thought process.

But no matter what stainless is out due to the poisonous leaching that occurs. We are trying to make a better fuel source, not hazardous waste.

[threshie3]

I agree that much more research and development needs to be done. I was struck by your comment "But, a recent discovery I found on hydrogen fuel cell electrodes has led to new electrode materials that use 30% less energy to the same reaction of current cells". That sounds great, is that material something that you are continuing to look in to?

I guess that at such a low cost and high performance of that potential material, it makes sense for you to move on from Pt.

Phil