Electromagnet power transfer question.

[Nali2001]

Hi there Tim and the rest,
Nice to see your are diving into the deep.
I have seen your 'with magnet' setup and a big issue in my opinion is, that regardless of the air gaps the fields of the magnets will just connect up with each other and remain in a magnet-to-magnet much preferred closed loop, and stay there. (see attached image) Building an ac driven system ala Hildenbrand valve with these concepts is really tricky. Essentially they are dc pulsed systems, and since we need a specific magnetic orientation each time the need for dc is obvious. But building an efficient power transferring system with dc is hard. You can not hammer the core with dc and expect to get ac like efficiencies. Easy to try, take an transformer and drive it with a 50%duty dc square wave and see what you get out, the train of dc pulses is not causing a big enough flux polarity change for good efficiency, you will be smacking amps in not time, saturating the core. That is why ac is the bomb for transformers.The Bulgarian system is way different since it does not really dc 'push' the magnets field out to the power output side, it works by saturating one O-core and so set up a barrier or a path of very heavy resistance. That is why the Bulgarian systems can be driven with an ac signal since it is the saturation that counts.

Anyway if you plan on testing your system, always use laminated steel from transformers and stuff. Your C-shaped cores can be found here: http://alphacoredirect.com/index.html?lmd=39634.474294 They have a wide range of cheap cores. Only thing is that you need to machine them. That means you must have the means to take out that metal section seen then the MagnetExtraPower video. But this is way more difficult than you think since the metal laminations are only held together with glue and will just fly apart when machined without knowing what you are doing.

Regards.
Steven

[nwman]

Steven, Exultant point about the magnets! Plus, this is all "diving into the deep" for me so I might as wall go all the way.

One thought I had to fix the magnet problem is to do something like whats shown in the picture below. This may open up other problems but its an idea.?

Tim

[nwman]

"The Bulgarian system is way different since it does not really dc 'push' the magnets field out to the power output side, it works by saturating one O-core and so set up a barrier or a path of very heavy resistance. That is why the Bulgarian systems can be driven with an ac signal since it is the saturation that counts."

Looking closer at the Bulgarian's work it really is the same thing as Jack's valve but instead of using a simple coil electromagnet as a shunt they use a o-core [toroid]. That make a lot of since to me now! Being a novice, how does the power transfer of the toroid work?

So does the AC used to power the toroid not saturate the core?

Is the idea that the toroid consumes less power while providing enough flux to divert the PM flux path, or is it that there is a way to recover some of the energy used to run the toroid? I'm not sure about this.

Does the toroid act the same even if its in contact with the rest of the system?

Tim

[Nali2001]

Hi Tim,
Well I would not call the Bulgarian system the same as the other know systems. It works on a 'novel' different approach.
Simply put one O-core side is driven into (near) saturation and so the core is 'full' and will not support any more magnetic fields. So the magnet see this as a no-go area and has to find another route.

So you see the O core acts as a resistor or a blockade for the field of the magnet. This can be done with Dc or Ac.

Well you have to find an optimal input level since you want near saturation so one can use a variac to tune the ac input.

Well I have not seen any references with the Bulgarian system that they have some kind of input recovery. Only that it is highly likely that the input is a high Q resonant system as well.

But my opinion is that you should start simple. With a static Jack valve for testing at first. Since although the Bulgarian system is in my opinion a very good idea, it is not all that plug and play.

Regards,
Steven

[nwman]

"Well I have not seen any references with the Bulgarian system that they have some kind of input recovery. Only that it is highly likely that the input is a high Q resonant system as well. "

When you say "high Q resonant"  do you[they] mean it might take less energy to saturate the o-core then the gain produced by the switching of the flux?

Going back to jacks valve and the saturation due to the DC pulse at high frequency, could you not simply just pulse it at 1Hz or as fast as you can and capture the output in a cap? I'm not too concerned with making it stream lined but just to see any kind of a gain. You can charge a cap with just a dc pulse can't you?

What lit my fire on this tech is seeing your [Steven] demonstration of the increase in holding force. It seemed to be a visual confirmation of potential.

Tim