Atraction motor vs repulsion motor question

[Charlie_V]

If I've got my information correct, a magnet motor that uses repulsion will wear the magnets out fairly quickly.  But an attraction magnet motor doesn't wear the magnets out.  Is that correct?

This is not fully correct.  For one, most permanent magnet motors (conventional type) use both the push and the pull (repulsion and attraction) to operate.  Repulsion does not wear the magnets unless the coils are producing a flux density greater than the flux density of the magnets (aka the coils are over driven).  If this happens, it will start to degauss the magnets over time.  Rare earth magnets are typically much less susceptible to being degaussed in this way, but it can still happen.  This is the same if you are trying to use an all permanent magnet machine (no coils).  As long as the stator magnets are not stronger than the rotor, repulsion will not hurt them.  Generators don't have this problem because the flux from the coil never exceeds that of the magnets. 

As far as you making a non-conventional permanent magnet motor, all the luck to you.  I've tried to build magnet rings before.  I've found that when you finally do get rid of the "sticky point" the wheel just sits there.  The sticky point is what makes it move - eliminate the sticky point, and all the forces that make the wheel move stop.  I think to make something like this work, there needs to be a way to cause a change in the flux of the stator but in such a way that the changing flux cannot be stopped by the rotor - action without a reaction. 

For an example, lets assume we had a magnet on the rim of a wheel - this is the rotor.  For the stator we take another permanent magnet and we start moving it toward the wheel and pull it away just as the rotor magnet approaches.  If we did this at the right time, we could get the wheel to turn.  However, this is a classic motor.  If we wanted to make the wheel drive itself, we would need to find a way where moving the stator magnet caused the rotor to spin, but as the rotor passes, it had no effect on the stator.  Basically, we want the stator magnet to effect the rotor, but the rotor can't effect the stator (a one way street). 

Hope all this helps,
Charlie

[FreeEnergy]

we'll see how this turns out. good luck.

[mangyhyena]

Thank you for all the replies to this.  Learned a few things and I appreciate that.

"It ran for a while and then quit.  The magnets wore out."  I've read this time and again.  I suspect that most of the time it was written by people who have never gotten one to run in the first place.  lol.  But there are two instances where I believe the inventor got it to run and it did indeed wear out the magnets.  Whether or not it was from mismatched magnets or not I don't know.  One of them warned against running the magnets too close to one another when in repulsion mode.  He seemed to think that distance played a big part of wearing the magnets out.  Any thoughts on that?  If true, then would allowing more space between opposing magnets minimize or eliminate any damage to the magnetic field?

Charlie_V, thank you for the input on magnetic rings.  While I'm not sure I can eliminate the sticking point, I do believe I can reduce its pull against the rotation.  With multiple stators to continue rotation against the sticking point and that sticking point reduced, maybe it will spin by itself.  Maybe that's the best I can hope for.  I've got ideas that I haven't seen others using to get by the gate.  But it could be that everyone has tried them and everyone knows it doesn't work.    I will not know until I try.  I'm having my drum fabricated for me in such a way that it should allow me to try several different configurations to see if any of them will work.

I'm also getting an axle made for what I hope will be a gravity motor with magnetic assist.  I'll post about that one if it looks like it has promise.  There are repelling magnets in that one, although not close to one another, so I hope it doesn't wear them out if it does work.

Thanks again for the responses.  Much appreciated.

[derricka]

Its a pretty safe bet that you won't wear out a modern Neo magnet  unless you heat it to 150C  (302 degrees F)
Anything else would require extremes unlikely to be encountered in your home.  To break down a Neo magnet magnetically would require a countering field strength over 15 Kilo Orsteds, again, unlikely in your home. I won't say its impossible to make a magnet motor, but it's certainly not easy. I have yet to see a demo that has me totally convinced. The Overconfident/Alsetalokin design is the best I have seen, but no claims of overunity on this one.

You might find the following link handy.

http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/DesignG_frames/DesignG_2.htm


 

[mangyhyena]

Thank you for the link.

"To break down a Neo magnet magnetically would require a countering field strength over 15 Kilo Orsteds,"

Forgive my ignorance, but what would it take to make 15 Kilo Orsteds?  Can I get that amount from other neo magnets, even if they're fairly close together as they pass one another?

And as for getting a magnet motor to continually spin in repulsion mode, I think I have the answer.  LOL, but doesn't everyone working on these motors?  But seriously, one thing I haven't seen worked with on a repulsion magnet motor is using both sides of the stator.  They're usually set up to work on only one side.  But using both sides would allow a stator capable of limited side-to-side movement to literally go around the gate and come back into the array after the gate.  With 2 arrays, one on each side of the stator, both arrays in repulsion to the stator, it would be possible to slip the stator around the gate.  Since there would be 2 gates, one for each array, for one full rotation it would be necessary to slip it around a gate twice each rotation.  And best of all, since the stator would not be hitting any repulsion from the gate, it should be possible to keep powering it as it slips around the gate.

I had given up on a magnet motor set up in repulsion mode because I had thought the magnets would wear each other out.  So I began looking into attraction mode.  Magnets that wear each other out are not viable for continued energy production, IMHO, because you would wind up spending the money you're not paying utilities on new replacement magnets, or at least on re magnetizing the worn out magnets.

But if you're right about neo magnets not wearing each other out in repulsion mode then I should be able to get a drum to spin continually and with as much horse power as I can afford to add by adding more arrays and stators.

And if I get this contraption working well enough to spin an alternator 24/7, I swear I'll come up with a parts list, assembly instructions, a printable layout of the magnet arrays and stators, and a cover sheet requesting that the person holding the packet Xerox more copies and give them away to others interested in getting off the grid----Free of charge.  I'm hoping for a packet of information that will allow people to make these motors in their garage at home using off the shelf parts only.  At that point it is up to the citizens around the world to make a change for the better as far as energy production is concerned.

So, I'm on this.  Wish me luck and let's hope I'm right about two arrays working in concert to slip around the gates.