The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)

[angryScientist]

@ATT

Is the published heat-output from a heat-pump the actual BTU quantity delivered into the space?

Umm? On that, I'm not sure. Maybe I don't understand the rating system.

@Nabo00o

I understand that you know this subject quite well, but when the total heat which a heat pump can supply is given, and it exceeds the electric power necessary to power it by a ratio which is the rated COP, how then can that be wrong, or something close to miss-information?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an expert. Just curious, like you.
I think of it like as "heat mover" more than anything else. To heat a room you buy 1 unit of energy from the power company and use it to move 3 units (which you don't pay for) of energy from the outside.

)It doesn't cost anything to move heat (in the way it wants to go)
)It cost as least as much to squeeze it into a small space as you get.
)You can use the latent (hidden) heat trick to do more work than you pay for. (Rule above no longer applies)

It's no trick. You get more than you pay for (period). It's because you don't pay anything to move the heat that is hidden!

[Nabo00o]

@ATTUmm? On that, I'm not sure. Maybe I don't understand the rating system.

@Nabo00oDon't get me wrong, I'm not an expert. Just curious, like you.
I think of it like as "heat mover" more than anything else. To heat a room you buy 1 unit of energy from the power company and use it to move 3 units (which you don't pay for) of energy from the outside.

)It doesn't cost anything to move heat (in the way it wants to go)
)It cost as least as much to squeeze it into a small space as you get.
)You can use the latent (hidden) heat trick to do more work than you pay for. (Rule above no longer applies)

It's no trick. You get more than you pay for (period). It's because you don't pay anything to move the heat that is hidden!

Well there you have it, this is what really drives me in this research. Although you and most other say that a heat pump 'moves' heat, and of course that fits very well with the name, I think the correct thing to say is that it 'separates' or 'splits' up a certain temperature into two different temperature potentials whose energy is the number of the COP times the energy input. Okey maybe not the best description possible but that potentials is 'real' energy, and is some times more than the other real input (input of the operator!).

I'll see if can't find the latest updates on high-efficient heat pumps, it could be interesting to see where the present technology is at the moment 

Nab

[angryScientist]

If your thinking about how to convert ambient heat to usable power then Cool!
I have been thinking about that one for a long time. Here is some more fuel for the fire;

I think it has been done. I think of a nuclear submarine. If they are only 50% efficient and they dump half of the ~100MW power their generating in heat. That would heat up the sea water around it dramatically! That's bad in several ways:
(1. Warm water will rise changing the natural circulation.(Bad)
(2. Polar missions will melt a lot of ice.(Bad, but make the tax payers pay for the stupidity of paying previously.)
(3. Warm water will emit deep infrared, detectable from space.(Unacceptable)

If those submarines are dumping that much heat into the bottom of the oceans and under the polar ice caps then WHAT THE @!%$ ARE the politicians doing scarring the population and wanting more money to fix the problem? They are the problem. And they want more money for what?!?!

Sorry. Got a bit riled up. Don't like paying for things that are not for my good.

I don't see a problem with the idea of an ambient heat engine.

I think the entire engine should be held at a temperature lower than ambient, surrounded by good insulation. Call that the new sink. Ambient heat flows in only though the engine. Heat not converted by engine is removed by heat pump.
Engine 50% efficient
Heat Pump 300% efficient

What's the problem?

[infringer]

Exactly!

You hit the nail on the head conversion so far the best idea I have seen is sterling engine...

But... there may be a material that expands with heat quite a bit and shrinks in lower temperatures I am sure of it ...

In which case if we could use a piezoelectric coupling with this material we could obtain energy output as the device shrinks and expands if made correctly

That would be as close to direct conversion as I would think expansion and contraction. Piezoelectric is likely the way to go I often wondered why people did not try to make solar cells for rochell salt crystals?

[ATT]

You hit the nail on the head conversion so far the best idea I have seen is sterling engine...

Maybe, take a look at the chart below. Now take a look at the 'expander temperature' and see where the temp line crosses the efficiency line at about 200 deg F, that's about what you get out of a heat pump (and that's with a slow (high TD) condenser-loop).

You might be able to offset this a little and increase the differential by stealing some 'cold' from the evap-side of the HP, but for ambient operation, you're looking at about 10% if an HP is the heat source (one of the reasons I leveraged refrigerant properties, again, by going to an ORC).

(Source: http://www.proepowersystems.com/Stirling%20Comparison.pdf)