Faraday's Paradox experiment

[KWP]

That is great you received a full 360^o rotation with the magnets suspended.  I really appreciate your help and effort in this.  It should continue to rotate until the tension in the nylon fibers have enough torque to overcome the tension in the field lines, at which point it will unwind itself. 

I will try to suspend a magnet from the nylon fibers which will be connected to a swivel bearing to avoid and to eliminate any torque from the fibers being twisted due to the rotation.  Assuming the friction of the swivel bearing is less than the torque provided when the nylon fibers were twisted, then this experiment should show a continuous rotation of the magnet which was induced into rotating.

Thanks Rosemary.  Hopefully this will motivate others to replicate this simple experiment, so they can have a better understanding of what is actually happening in these experiments.

GB

I think I've figured out what is happening here.  Magnets are never perfectly magnetized-- so there are areas on the poles that have a stronger field than other areas.  When you have two magnets facing each other as in your test, and at least one of the magnets is free to turn, then the freely turning magnet will try to align it's strongest field point to the strongest field point of the other magnet.

This does not mean the field itself (the so called "lines of force") are rotating, but the field will have "lines of force" that change in strength as the magnet is rotated.  You should be able to see this effect when you are rotating the magnet below a petri dish that is partially filled with a ferro-fluid.  The lines of force (indicated by the ferro-fluid) do not rotate with the magnet, but they change in strength as the magnet is rotated.

If you made a small clear glass or clear plastic container with some ferro-fluid in it, and placed this between the two magnets in attraction-- you would see the lines of force that represent the field between the two magnets.  Yes-- the lines of force in this configuration ARE linked to each other, but they will not rotate if either magnet is rotated-- however the two magnets will have a natural place where they want to align to each other, and this will be the strongest line of force (which might not be visible in this configuration.)

As Airstriker mentioned, a better test would be to substitute a ferromagnetic material that is not a permanent magnet, and then re-test.  You might try a washer that is about the same size at the magnet...  Even this test is not perfect though, because the material in the washer may not be homogeneous (it might have an area that has more or less permeability than the rest of the washer)-- but it should be better than a magnet in this regard, because the "strong point" in the magnet's field will have very little effect on the washer as the magnet (or the washer) is rotated.

That's probably why I didn't see this effect with the ceramic magnets-- they are made by thoroughly mixing a ferromagnetic powder (with a "binder"), and then pressing it into a disc shape, and then "sintering" that (in a kiln).  The cooled material is then magnetized in a jig-- and the ferromagnetic material in the jig itself may not be perfect, which can cause the non-homogeneous field problem that we are talking about, but maybe in my case I just got lucky and obtained some well made magnets.

[gravityblock]

@Airstriker:

I performed the experiment you suggested and the results were as expected.  The ferromagnetic material does not rotate with the magnet.  Also, the magnet won't rotate with the ferromagnetic material either, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssj6MHFMZY8

In fact, they won't even try to rotate and there is no oscillations either.  Since the magnet and the metal piece both have a conductive coating, then where is the CEMF to oppose or cause rotation?

There is a simple explanation to this.  The field lines of the magnet are firmly seated to the magnet, but the field lines of the metal piece are detached from the material and are free-floating, which means the magnetic field of the magnet can freely rotate with the magnet and detached field lines of the ferromagnetic material without it's field lines disconnecting due to tension.  Since the field lines aren't disconnecting, then there is no CEMF induced in the conductive coating to cause or oppose any rotation.

For the time being, I'm going to hold back some information and see how far KWP can put is foot into his mouth.  I'll give you a hint, it has to do with the differences between the H-field and the B-field.  After posting this information, then my analysis and observations will become very clear and make total sense.

GB

[KWP]

For the time being, I'm going to hold back some information and see how far KWP can put is foot into his mouth.  I'll give you a hint, it has to do with the differences between the H-field and the B-field.  After posting this information, then my analysis and observations will become very clear and make total sense.

@GB:

My idea of the CEMF causing the rotation was an attempt to explain your results, which were not identical with my results.  However, after thinking about it some more, I came up with a more plausible solution- (see my last post, #190 above).  The results of your latest experiment were as exactly as I predicted in my last post.  This experiment proves that the magnetic lines of force do not rotate as a magnet is being physically rotated on it's B-axis (the magnetic axis).

It seems that your own experimental result proves my theory is correct, and your theory is wrong.  Oh well, that is life (and science at it's best).  Now, if you could simply admit that you were wrong, we can move on...

[KWP]

@All:

There are two opposing theories here.  The first is that the magnetic "lines of force" rotate with a magnet that is being rotated on it's magnetic axis.  The second is that the "lines of force" do not rotate with the magnet.

We have the experimental evidence of Michael Faraday on the homopolar generator:

1) When the magnet is held stationary and the disk is spun, an EMF is formed.  In this case, since the magnet is not moving, this evidence is in-line with current electromagnetic theory, and has no bearing on our two theories as stated above.

2) When the disk is held stationary, and the magnet is rotated, there is no EMF formed.  In this case, the theory that the "lines of force" do not rotate when the magnet is rotated is the only theory of the two that explains the results.  (Since the "lines of force" are not rotating, they are not "cutting across" the conductive disk, and so there can be no EMF.)

3) When the magnet is attached to the disk, and the magnet and disk are rotated in unison, an EMF is formed.  In this case, the theory that the "lines of force" do not rotate when the magnet is rotated is the only theory of the two that explains the results.  (Since the "lines of force" are not rotating, but the disk is-- they are "cutting across" the conductive disk as it is rotated, and so there is an EMF.)

Nobel Prize laureate Richard Feynman said: “It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong!”

If you agree with what Richard Feynman said (that experimental data "trumps" theory), then the only conclusion you can come to is that the magnetic "lines of force" do NOT rotate with the magnet, when the magnet is rotated on it's magnetic axis.  If you accept this theory, then there is no "paradox" at all.  Any other theory is pure fantasy, and flies in the face of the established facts.  There, I said it-- did I "put my foot in my mouth" GB?

[gravityblock]

This does not mean the field itself (the so called "lines of force") are rotating, but the field will have "lines of force" that change in strength as the magnet is rotated.  You should be able to see this effect when you are rotating the magnet below a petri dish that is partially filled with a ferro-fluid.  The lines of force (indicated by the ferro-fluid) do not rotate with the magnet, but they change in strength as the magnet is rotated.

If you made a small clear glass or clear plastic container with some ferro-fluid in it, and placed this between the two magnets in attraction-- you would see the lines of force that represent the field between the two magnets.  Yes-- the lines of force in this configuration ARE linked to each other, but they will not rotate if either magnet is rotated-- however the two magnets will have a natural place where they want to align to each other, and this will be the strongest line of force (which might not be visible in this configuration.)

This is where you went wrong.  You are mixing and confusing the H-field with the B-field when dealing with petri dishes filled with a ferro-fluid.  The H-field is the strength or intensity of the field, while the B-field is the flux density.  The ferro-fluid indicating a change in strength when the magnet is rotated is showing you the H-field, and not the B-field.  Wings made this same mistake with Sirzerp's method of viewing magnetic field lines.  Sirzerp clearly stated in his publication the field lines being shown were not the B-field.  Your petri dishes are not showing B-fields.

Airstriker is very familiar with the B-H hystersis loop, and he should know very well, that a ferromagnetic material will have a very weak external B-field until the material is over-saturated.  The ferromagnetic ball in my video doesn't have much of an external B-field and is very weak, so how is there going to be an interaction with the magnet?

Also, in the experiment where both magnets were suspended and there was rotation, if there was a change in strength of the fields between the two magnets while both are rotating, then this "strong point" you are referring to should pull the magnets off center while rotating, but this doesn't happen.

Also, there is a very good reason why I used a ferromagnetic ball.  Because the "strong point" with the strongest magnetization force always pulled the ferromagnetic material off center.  A sphere overcomes this problem in order to carry out the experiment.  No need to use two sphere magnets, because the strong point isn't an issue between two circular magnets because the magnets are fully saturated, meaning any increase in the field strength (H-field) due to a strong point, will not have a corresponding change of the B-field or flux density of the magnets.

Keep on digging.

GB