Open "Free Source" ideas

[broli]

Dgraphic911, I just saw The Dark Knight a few moments ago and maybe my mind is still warped in that world but you funnily enough sounded like the Joker  . You said lots of wise things but also some things that are wrong to me. I don't believe in the fact that a gravity wheel will be stumbled upon. When you're in this "business" you have to have a strong will. In the end the one with the strongest will will succeed. So even if you fail 1000 times you have to remain as driven as you were at the beginning, that's the key for success. My theory is that one strong willed person can achieve a lot, a strong willed group can achieve anything. That's why I'm making a big deal out of all this sharing thing.

[DrWhat]

I think a group should be established to totally share "Bessler Wheel" ideas and be bound by a contract such that whoever makes the discovery within the group lets the whole group share. And even if they go it alone and make the discovery they are bound to share it with the group. Maybe a time limit had to be placed on this. Say 10 years. If someone makes the discovery alone and hides it for the contract's 10 year span, then they run the risk of it being invented by another in that time.

The problem is re non contributers who sit idly in the group. Well that is fine. I'm sure there would be plenty to share financially if that is the road taken, or else if agreed it is given away freely then no one is disadvantaged. Maybe someone sitting back eventually just contributes 1 idea at a critical point and that may make all the difference.

There should be no financial obligations in the group except at the start to get the contract compiled.

Just thoughts as always.

[rlortie]

Well guys I must admit, this thread is getting more attention than I thought it would.

My intent was to make a point that those screaming the loudest for an inventor to build something and give it to thy neighbor are the same people who do not have the initiative or the capability of building it themselves.  In the political world they are called "Liberals"...

Stumbling on it by accident is very likely how the answer will be found, many would look at this as a gift from God just as Bessler did!  He worked for a number of years before finding the answer, now was it by accident or a gift from God. The best way of increasing the odds of finding something by accident is working on something to create such an accident.

You are not going to find it by sitting back and talking about it.  I am willing to share with every Tom, Dick and Harry out there providing they have done something to share ideas deemed innovative and result in a working device. To my thinking it is against the grain of social behavior to work your ass off and then share with your neighbor while his  only effort is to cry 'giveme, giveme' 

The simple truth is it will be discovered by an individual and not by group think, as this is how most inventors choose to work, Then their is the the others, The worthless time wasters that have completely unworkable ideas that they can't even explain very well or don 't see the complete and utter reason why the thing will fail. They choose to constatly share their ideas and hide behind the " i can't build it but i know it will work" veil. and get mad at everyone else for not building it for them.

I could not have said it better! Thank you, although I would not rule out the group thing,  There are a few tight groups of "doers" that work together, some working with more that one individual or group. Others like myself, have a partner to knock ideas back and forth with. I look for the 'Newbie's" as well as the established who show mechanical aptitude, dexterity and the empirical skills placing themselves in a position to stumble and have an accident.  I have experienced  a few such accidental finds, they were not the ultimate but certainly helped.

Maybe someone sitting back eventually just contributes 1 idea at a critical point and that may make all the difference.

That my friend is exactly what it is all about, ideas that can make someones project turn into a reality. Do you think I would have a problem sharing with that person? I do not think so!

it was ralphs way of saying "if you want to see my good stuff then lets see how many other people have good stuff and want to share"  Ralph (and many others) never show thier good ideas.

Not quite worded correctly!  I am not saying 'if you want to see my good stuff'.... I am saying how many out there are willing to give away the sweat off their brow, their innovative achievements and possibly years of trial and error research to someone for nothing that  would not appreciate it. I am willing to give to those who helped in achieving what I have to offer. One does not have to be a mind reader or carry a sheepskin to deduce what members show potential of offering input worthy of sharing with.

Please end thread here, Ralph won't share, he doesn't have any greater ability to find it than anyone else. Broli believes Ralph should share more. I guess I used to also until i realised he has nothing.Ralph i'm not trying to trick you into saying you do, don't worry.  The more people share bad ideas the harder it will be to actually see past all the unworkable ideas and think outside the box.  Ralphs extensive experiance is actually his handicap. This will be stumbled upon by a newbie, without classic engineering background. Once you have seen so many failures as ralph has you begin to prejudge and reject ideas based upon what you think you have learned. For all those that think having Ralph or anyone else share what they m ight have learned please stop asking. It is a terible mistake to try and learn from someone elses mistakes on the quest.     

A provocative statement, If this were Besslerwheel.com, I would say it is worthy of an 'Off Topic' thread of its own.
Your are correct, I have no greater ability to find it than anyone else,  unless you wish to consider my mechanical aptitude and hands on experience.

Do I have a self-sustaining runner?  The answer is no!  The more people who share bad ideas can be productive in the long run, it is called 'Process of Elimination'. Some one viewing a bad idea may see or get an idea of what it may take to be a runner, that is to say stumble on to something.

True, there is no need to ask me to share my ideas. it is quite simple, I willingly share my ideas with those who have helped bring said ideas into the real world whether it works or not. I am a trial and error builder hoping for an accident, not a philosopher or a philanthropist.

Those who claim they have a runner or will present one on a given date have to this day never delivered.  To my thinking this has to be the most foolish yet productive thing a person can do. Announcing an unveiling date has created some of the longest threads on this forum. I do not believe the mention of names is necessary. Others try to duplicate without the true facts, they learn the hard way.  When all is said and done a lot of ideas have changed hands, and developed a bond bringing some members closer together willing to trust and exchange information.

During these scenarios the thread becomes contaminated and lead astray by the liberals who feel that the announcer/inventor should give it away!
     
You cannot re-invent the wheel and give it away. No explanation necessary, if you do not understand by now, you never will.

Ralph lortie       
   

[rlortie]

DrWhat,

You wrote:

The problem is re non contributers who sit idly in the group. Well that is fine. I'm sure there would be plenty to share financially if that is the road taken, or else if agreed it is given away freely then no one is disadvantaged. Maybe someone sitting back eventually just contributes 1 idea at a critical point and that may make all the difference.


I strongly disagree!  Not everyone can build a unit for their own use. If you give it away the utility companies, Oil magnates and big bucks will gobble it up building wheel farms. Do you really think they will drop the price per kilowatt from what they presently charge?  The answer is no, they will charge more as it is considered 'Green earth technology'  Most consumers are already paying more for wind produced power than they do for fossil fueled generation.

Every couple of months I receive a letter or a phone survey wanting to know if I would be willing to pay more per watt hour for wind generated 'green' power. When I ask them what category Hydro-electric power falls under, they go total blank and tell me that is not on the list of options. That is what I am presently paying for and if it is not 'renewable' I do not know what is!

If you do not patent and keep control the consumers that rely on a meter attached to the side of their house has gained nothing. In fact the supplier will gouge him for more!

To say no one is disadvantaged only applies to those who can build one. Free source? who is going to build units on an assembly line basis and give them away? Nothing worthwhile comes free, there is a price tag and when given a chance the supplier will increase that price tag! 

Ralph     

[DrWhat]

P-Motion and Ralph. Look, don't get me wrong. I agree that patenting this design of Bessler's (or whatever) would be ideal. And I'm all for that primarily. A group patent would be great with various contributors. Us "regulars" should be part of that group.

But at this stage nothing has been achieved so far towards the discovery. Mainly because of trust issues "will he steal my idea, or not keep it secret..."., and also the thought "I'll be the one" or "I've put in so much effort I deserve to be the one!". Also "I have a great idea but and keeping it to myself".

Sure we have learnt a lot about Bessler, got more accurate translations etc. And a lot of people have put in a lot of effort including myself primarily behind closed doors.

Yet at the point we are at, I would rather the discovery be made and at the cost of it being open source, rather than not be made at all.

Or if a group of us can come to an iron-clad agreement, we could then really dig our teeth into this and share all our ideas in private and hopefully make a "group" discovery. I'm sure the rewards would be big enough that a slice of the pie would be huge for each member.

Basically I just want the damn thing discovered! At this point I don't care who owns it. Just finding out how it was done would be a relief in itself. But a group patent would be ideal.

D