Why seek a God particle - when God doesn't exist?

[ScaryTruth]

With quantum mechanics models telling us that reality is, at best, vague, and likely not at all that which we perceive, I had a discussion with a friend and genuinely smart physicist recently about possible religious ramifications.

Now, don't get me wrong. I genuinely abhor what mainstream religion, as a whole, has done to the concept of God, and the fact that his flock always needs more and more money. Televangelists and even some garden variety bible thumpers have actually made me break out in hives. What specific religious denominations require as matters of faith can be unsettling and matters such as the crusades, the inquisition and the religious wars throughout human history are nothing short of stunning.
Further, the thought of a young earth, (explaining dinosaur remains as God's way to test faith, for instance), that the bible is proof of God's word, (when it was written by humans - and re-assembled by King James), or the concept of a 'hands-on' God, intervening in the individual lives and destinies of nearly seven billion humans on a daily basis is, well, daunting indeed.

That having been said - back to the point.

Science likes proof, as well it should. To count, weigh and measure. To demonstrate repeatability and explain the workings of a vastly sophisticated natural world and universe. Yet scientists in a variety of fields come to a point, past which, fundamental processes and forces become unexplainable. Going deeply enough, there will be a point where matters are 'explained' as 'just the way things work'.

Quite taken for granted, by definition.

I refer to matters such as the behavior of fundamental particles, and why they combine to form myriad elements that make up - well - everything. How atoms bond and molecules accumulate to create matter. How photons are both particles and waves. Why electrons are affected by observation, (many physicists become nervous when confronted by that pesky measurement problem, bless their hearts). And, of course - there's that ultraviolet catastrophe - a genuine monkey wrench in an otherwise elegant order. Why do electrons orbit within an atom only at precise multiples? In a simple water molecule, why is one hydrogen atom poitively charged and the second one negatively charged?

Simply stated, why do 'things' do what they do?

Then, there are the fundamental and critical forces that dictate not only everything that we see, but everything that we don't.

Gravity, essentially, remains but a theory, mired in a concept currently described as 'a dent in the space/time continuum'. I believe it - mainly because I don't know what else to believe. Einstein struggled with it for twenty years and gave up. I figured that if such a thing stumped Einstein, I should stick with rebuilding carburetors.

Electromagnetism, a million, billion, billion, billion, billion times stronger than gravity - and it's effects, like gravity, are predictable and observeable - yet remain, you guessed it - unexplained.

Don't get me started on the nuclear forces - we'll be here all day. (I'll save dark matter and dark energy for another time - meanwhile, ask a dedicated, seasoned cosmologist to explain galactic conservation of angular momentum.)

To take these perplexing realities a step futher, abiogeneticists and chemical biologists rely on a plethora of processes and behaviors to explain how the living cell forms, exists and replicates, how amino acids form proteins, that RNA and DNA carries life's signature, that polypeptides always behave predictably. However, these seemingly magical, certainly mysterious processes remain in the same realm - unexplained and taken for granted.

Whether explaining to the novice or speaking to other experts, past a critical point, the physicist, the biologist or the cosmologist must, by necessity, rely on a laundry list of critical aspects of nature that are, yep, "just the way things are".

It is one thing to understand a building, for instance. It's dimensions, it's function and design, even it's location and structure. But without a genuine understanding of the individual bricks, (how they obtain and hold their shape), or the mortar, (why it serves as the ideal bonding agent, and was it just conveniently lying around), why not just admit that a plethora of fundamental aspects of the building are not understood? And may never be?

But my friend insist that these hidden forces and properties are commonplace, and in being so, are 'built in' - omnipresent - even 'simply natural', (he explains with a slight shrug).

I reminded myself of an inquisitive child, asking the all-knowing parent a series of "whys", followed by the inevitable "why", at which some point, the parent simply doesn't know - "why?". And the frustrated parent will often dismiss the child to tend to matters of homework or chores.

To demonstrate predictability or repeatability is far short of understanding - or explaining the concept. I found that getting my brilliant friend the physicist to admit that these forces of nature - essential in science's 'understanding' and quantification of all aspects of matter, energy and life - were simply taken for granted... and 'just the way things are' - made him uneasy. "We aren't there yet", he explained. "But we'll get there eventually". But for now, is seems, these critical aspects of everything we know and see are seemingly 'incidental', no more than 'accidental', or even 'meaningless'. (Now that's precisely what I would call a classic leap of faith by definition, and quite a critical leap, it is.)

So, in being a dedicated atheist, my learned friend remains certain that evidence of intelligent design is non-existent, even though his understanding, (and those of every single person on planet earth), squarely hits a brick wall, even before the quantum realm is reached, and these mysterious, critical aspects of nature are, essentially, 'all important, yet meaningless and accidental'.

Would I be making the outrageous claim that these unexplained properties, behaviors and forces that dictate all reality everywhere from places unseen -and certainly far from understood - are the result of the hand of God, right under our noses yet unrecognized? The evidence of God - in all places - for all of time? No. Making such a claim would be absurd if I value my credibility, especially with so much not understood or explained.

But wouldn't the claim that these myriad, critical forces and properties do not indicate design, by a cadre of self-proclaimed experts - when they are simply unable to explain such matters except to say, "that's just the way things work", be an equally unsubstantiated proclamation?

Michael

[christo4_99]

as far as things like gravity and magnetism being explained it's not so difficult...if you empty a cavity of it's air and do not seal it the air rushes back in.if you think of these things as deficits and surpluses,that is: compressions and decompressions of space or fundamental particles it is easy to see why things attract or repel each other...too much of one and not enough of another...it's all imbalances and things "know" of the imbalance so they move in the appropriate direction.put simply each atom has a deficit or an inversion of "stuff"...the outside is attracted to the inside mutually and is not dependant on electron charge...it is the electron which serves to both separate atoms and to keep them together.If the universe were to become balanced it would be both solid and energy but "one" and becoming one it would compress the matter beyond it compressability(like a black hole does) and eventually explode into particles again.Just a theory.

[mscoffman]

One thing I have learned from studying Artificial Intelligence is that Evolutionary
design differs from how human engineering design works. For one thing,
in evolution, all levels of functions are mixed together and available
because things are always tested into operation, So from Quantum
mechanics through physics through chemistry, everything is on-tap ready
to be used, and then tested into the correct operation. Evolution never
needs to do intermediate analysis so it doesn't waste time doing partial
ordering or logical construction of intermediate levels. One reason studying
the physical brain is so difficult is that at certain levels the wiring in each is
unique, meaning it hits a level where things appear randomised. So one can
generally tell at some level whether something complex was done via evolution
or via human intelligence. Perhaps we will develop more evolution-like design
methodology in the future and perhaps God's design methods are superior,
but they certainly are different. These difference indicates to some extent
how human intelligence, does what it does, and I feel is worth studing.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[TechStuf]

perhaps God's design methods are superior,
but they certainly are different. These difference indicates to some extent
how human intelligence, does what it does, and I feel is worth studing.

Great observation Mark!  Rent the movie:  "Expelled" by Ben Stein.  I for one, find it very interesting that a book such as the Holy Bible could be so very accurate over a span of thousands of years, even identifying the Zionist AntiChrists that are in power in our day.  Also proclaiming that man would take dominion over the skies, even reaching into heaven....again written thousands of years in advance, while some of the Wright bros.own contemporaries were denying the possibility despite photographic evidence of their flights.


http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/297062.shtml

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/sixpointedstar.html

http://watch.pair.com/solomon.html


The Bible correctly identified the 'cabal' of individuals who would employ the mark of solomon, his six pointed seal, the geometric expression of 6 6 6 that would be in power in our day. 


http://www.hornes.org/theologia/mark-horne/what-is-the-worth-of-666-talents-of-gold



To correctly indict antiChrist zionism/freemasonry and their offshoot tentacles, as the Holy Scriptures themselves have done eons ago, while denying the various amazing truths of the Bible would be foolhardy indeed!


Remember, the enemies of Christ's children now openly declare their allegiance to the wicked one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjOs-egFMs


To harbor belief that a greater truth lies sandwiched between those who believe the word of God, and those in power who worship the devil as prophesied thousands of years ago, is an increasingly untenable position.  One perhaps more precarious than either of the other two..


"I would rather have you hot or cold, for be lukewarm and I will spit you out of my mouth." - Yeshua, Jesus Christ


"I will bring to ruin, those ruining the earth" - Yahweh, Almighty God.


Before it's over, all who remain alive in this generation will either actively choose a side, or do so by passive default.   This life, this reality, is truly a test.  God will not host cowards in His kingdom, cowards become traitors, and traitors start wars.




Blessings in Yeshua be upon you dear readers,



TS

[christo4_99]

when people have more to say than there are ears willing to listen...time and energy are wasted...Techstuf...we are aware of your views...your religiously motivated posts cancerize these threads...please,leave us to our demise if you will...rather than taking any subject matter and branding it with your particular flavor of obedience...when it comes to controlling people religion can be sited as a voluntary complience with the status quo...resuting in the political equivalent of martial law.Since the U.S. system is based on the Roman Empire it is a my opinion that adapting our country to middle eastern religious ideals is a conflict of interest to say the least.