Joule Thief

[jeanna]

Koen,

Thanks for clearing that up. You are correct in the way you described this.

I would only like to add a couple of comments.

1- take out that led from the c-e in the transistor. I only use it there to prove I have not made a mistake in connecting up my circuit. This light takes the expected 20 to 30mA from the ckt and is not useful here.

2-My 30 led array was actually 10 in series but each of the 10 had 2 in parallel to that. I later made them all in parallel and I think they lit up fine using the MK1 or the hybrid.

I did a wee study about turns to lights and in my array I needed around 1 1/2 to 2 turns per light to make it bright. there was a stepwise increase in power with each turn. And I believe this changes with each ferrite core. - not sure though.

I found that the high permeability ferrite to be lousy when it came to making more power. (the switching matters)

I don't remember now what all the calculations were, but with too many secondary turns, it seemed that I actually lost power. It must be more voltage than I can use at the expense of the small amount of amps that I need.


Another tip just before I left, I learned that the secondary SHOULD be wound at least one time back over itself. So, the way MK's secondaries are wound up and then back down again is best, I think.

--
As to this being a transformer...
Yes, that is what it is. But at the same time it is the inverter that is making AC from the battery.
The secondary only works because the dc has been converted to ac. In a recursive way, it is the same wires doing both.

I just want to repeat for everyone, to let the basic jt be the main circuit, but let the secondary do ALL the work. This is where the free ride comes in.

Thank you,

jeanna

[innovation_station]

Hmm okay now you're having the same confusion as I had a while ago
when you guys refer to a secondary, you're talking about any additional coil that is wrapped around the basic JT.
But the JT itself consists of two coils around a core, of which only one coil is fed the input pulse.
This is basically a transformer with the primary being fed the input pulse and the secondary only
playing along in the output phase, an auto-transformer. When I say "the resistor connected to the
secondary of the JT" I am talking about this second coil that is always part of the basic JT and
always connected to the resistor on one side and the primary coil on the other.
So the JT's second coil, the secondary, is always connected otherwise the basic concept of
turning the input pulse into double its voltage would never happen.

It is the second "secondary", actually a third coil and not a second at all, that is wrapped around the first two and not
connected to them.

If we consider the JT to be a single primary coil, then this non-connected coil would be the secondary.
But I can't help but see the JT as a two coil setup and that makes the "secondary" the third coil
in my mind.

I hope that cleared up the confusion?

So yes I understand that the ouput part connected to the LEDs is not connected to the
basic JT circuit and that the "secondaries" are wrapped around the basic JT.

And I have done so, and I do get output when I wind it very basically with the basic JT
and one "secondary" (or third coil if you will) and when the secondary has all the LEDs
on it. That works, no problem.
But it is also very clear that when I do this, the original LED on the basic JT circuit,
the one that is in parallel with the transistor, that becomes quite a bit less bright.
That seems to indicate power drop in the JT while the secondary is obviously getting power,
and that seems to be exactly what you'd expect from a transformer.
So that's what's causing the confusion on the subject of output power: I don't see anything
out of the ordinary besides inductive coupling which is the basis of "wireless power",
but IST and MK1 (and others?) have been reporting huge voltages and accordingly large
DC output from their secondaries...

Thanks for the pointers to your experiences with secondaries!

Kind regards,
Koen

i have  been confused 10 000 times in my path to learneing the way of the DEVICE OF 1000 STYLES..

this has been no easy task ...   but it has been a learning experience ...   and i have learned ...THAT THE LEARNING NEVER ENDS

i think the jt is fed constant power ....  to both coils 1 is slowed down the other  breaks the the curcuit or intrupts it ...    it is a plain old viberatior or a closed relay ...  or a BUZZER 

both coils make magic feilds...     i mean magnetic ....

the transformer action in my eyes only ocours when the unit is on when the unit is off the leds are lit

now this works both ways... 

to get only the good stuff i think you really need half wave rectifers ... or leds ...  litt as i have showen a few times.... 

then rectify it ... and cap it ... this will be compleatly idependent of the source as you take NOTHING FROM TRANSFORMER ACTION ...

i think for the out put secondary would be 2 coils 1 from each side common ground to a full wave rectifier ...  common goes on the dc side.... and the other 2 wires on the ac side ... 

WHAT WILL BE?!?!?!

IST!!

[jeanna]

It is interesting you brought the amp/resistance from thin wire again, Koen,

I did a test for mk1 using his design that I had copied and measured the rectified volts and amp draw from different gauge wires used as secondaries. (This was very tedious, but) I am glad, because I found out that there was no real advantage to using the thicker wire.

This is nice to see because one can fit a lot more turns or separate secondaries in a narrow core with thin wire.

Thanks for asking, I had forgotten to mention that.

jeanna

[innovation_station]

i use thick bell wire .....  cuz


dammm im LAZY 

i have wound hundreds of thin wire coils ..... 

and i like to make quick tests...  if it works ... it works.... lol 

so ....    start thinking 369 after you get it wound properly ... 

and mass TO mass  so this means ....  if your first jt coil is 3 your second will be 6  ... and the secondary or 3rd will be 9 ...  do it any way you want ....


lol 

same as my MY HEMF TRANNY .......     only loose the resistor sub it for a high self inductance winding ...    tuned by mass.. 

IST!!

but first tune to your core material .... 

@Mk1 got any  ramma garden wire ...

we should use it ... it is cheep...... everyone can get it........ and there is lots of room    it is IRON WIRE LAMANITED ....  IT HAS TO WORK LOL

PLUS WE ARNT THAT HI A FREQ YET ANYWAYS... 

[Mk1]

@all

Stop the long post , i just woke up ! Everybody good today , actually i wanted to say thanks to you 2 , helping me now to show people , not easy , but i am glad , i took time for you 2.

@koen

First the jt coil, need to be tuned to your toroid ,and your results will be as good as your toroid.
make sure the led works in the regular jt way , then i can be removed , to stop the confusion on secondary coil i call it pickup coil.
Those pickups coils are only connected to the diode bridge , you need it to get the meter to read it properly .
Also i like my pc , don't care showing ou , bedini could show it without any problem and still doesn't the man is smart, and alive.

Mark