Joule Thief

[resonanceman]

I am sorry to hear this, gary.
The part that is unclear to me is why you are expecting to get more volts from a higher voltage input battery.

This is a switch circuit, right?

All you are doing with the battery is switching the transistor on and off.
The voltage going into the secondary is coming from the inductance of the toroid not the voltage from the battery.
This is the reason the battery is not drained by what the secondary is doing.
Said a different way, this is how the amps draw can go down or remain unchanged with more lights coming off the secondary.

I never tried this, but my guess is that the 450 volts which come from my fluoro tube inductor would drain the battery as quickly with or without the tube actually there... (because it is the transistor that it is working and nothing more.)

In fact, if I check the battery volts when the light goes out then forget to remove the battery, it is significantly drained later with no light on any more.

I have never said this before to you because I just figured there was something in your feedback/flyback that was involved. But you just said you had not set them on when the transistor blew out.

Would you be interested in trying to explain it to me?

thank you,

jeanna

I just saw this on introvertebrate's bedini part2
I copied it directly from his answer to someone about why the neon in parallel to the base resistor.

Maybe this is what you need to do. It doesn't stop the bedini from charging etc.

j

Jeanna

Yes............I do  expect  the output voltage to  be higher  just because I am starting out  with  a higher voltage .

If I remember right .......  you  spent some time   with  a resonance  simulator  when you  were working on a coil  gun .   
Do you  remember  what  happened when you  raised  the input  voltage  of that simulator ?
With  flyback ......it is not  unusual  for the  pulses to be 3 times the voltage of the  input  voltage ..... that holds true of any input voltage .   
I am  pretty sure that the  limitations  we  have been finding  with JTs  is a combination of  limited  input  power and  the toroids  saturation point ...... any given toroid can only handle so much  power .
I see no  reason  to think that  I have hit the upper limit on my bi-metal  coil .





I do not think  that   I need  the neon  as  your quote  describes .
Remember   all the real  work is to be done  by the secondary.
ALL  the high voltage should  be  in the secondary  or circuits  following the secondary.
The  primary  should  stay  well within the  safety range of the  transistor .

I  have been burning  up  quite a few  transistors today .
I have  burnt  a 6 or 8   3094s    and a few small  MOSFETS .
I  bought  a TIP31 a while  back ....... it seems to  work  almost  as good  as  a  3055.
I have  got  this  TIP31  VERY hot several times ......it is still  working .
I guess I  will have to check out the TIP2055   I saw one at radio shack .
The  specs  are very similar ..... I believe  the overall  power   of the 2n3055 is a little higher .......

I am not  sure if any of this is much of an explanation  .......

I have to  get  a stable  12 V system  going .... then  I can  work on  flyback and feedback at  the  higher power levels .   



gary

[jeanna]

Gary,

Oh yes, you are right.
I am myself making more and less output at the secondary using the input voltage and a resistor, so I do know that it increases the output by some.

But more than anything the amount of secondary output comes about as a result of the turns around the toroid.

[74turns gives 89 volts and 21turns gives 25volts using the same transistor at the same time. ]

Also, before I did any fiddling, the input voltage of 1.2v battery  gives secondary voltage of 89v, but with a 33 ohm resistor that same secondary voltage becomes 35v.
At the same time at the transistor:
C-E junction is
15v with no resistor and
10v with a 33 ohm resistor.

The bedini which is using a lot of flyback for feedback, recommends the neon to preserve the transistor.

Mostly I will back out, because I do not know about using  flyback to feedback into the system.

Thanks for your reply.
It reminded me of my own decrease by using the input resistor.

Do you know how many volts you are achieving in the flyback on yours? I know you are doing this without a scope, so I am wondering.

jeanna

[xee2]

@ resonanceman

If you have put a 2000 ohm resistor in series with your pot and you are still blowing out transistors then you have a lot more than 12 volts coming in. I can run a 2N3055 from 9 volts with a 1000 ohm base resistor with no problems. You should easily  be able to run from 12 volts using a 2000 ohm base resistor.

[gadgetmall]

If you use only one hand and don't have the foots in water, generally there is no prob. Your body just need to be insulated from a ground like water, a piece of conducting metal, earth if you are outdoor...

The electricity always take the less resistive way. If you are not grounded(like with shoes) there is no way, except if you use 2 hands and touch + and - with different hands, in this case your body act like a resistor between your left hand->left arm->chest->right arm->right hand.

Hi . I Didn't mean to undermine anyone here but if you recall the diffib  and shouting CLEAR is done for a reason as you know most people wear shoes . It could be as simple as your leg touching a bench that you have a camera module laying on and part of the circuit touches that table . One hand won't always work so its important to know that there is more than one way besides just grabbing both sides of a cap in a camera circut . I have been knocked on My butt many times thru the years playing with tesla coils and camera chargers . I have a"what i thought was plastic board to lay circuits one . I soon discovered it was plastic with Graphite imbedded in it and actually will show continuity from end to end . I discovered it just like i said above .It was on a metal Work Bench i Have in the Shop. Needless to say even the experienced sometimes get surprizes .

. Good work every one i see some of you are playing with inverters now that you all going beyond the standard 1 volt JT to more Voltage . I guess the reason is to get more current maybe but they already have 12 volt inverters . I remember in 8th grade i made My first 12 volt inverter from a radio Vibrator and reversed  12 volt Ct transformer when every one else in the class was making electromagnets. It worked good . I had My 9 inch Black and white tube tv in the car to watch in the back seat when  my parents would travel every weekend from Virgina to Nc .Ahh the days .. Well Keep on Experimenting . I dont have time anymore Lately . not enuff time as i am in process with a marketing Co to sell rights to My patented  E-lite circuit  for the world to use . . The Site here made me realize that showing your work open source is ok if you are a tecky but i would say only 1 in 10000 people even know how to solder much less know what we are talking about so the best way to get free energy out to the masses is to get it manufactured so the can have access to buy it .
Peace and Goodluck everyone .

albert

aka Gadget

[resonanceman]

Gary,

Oh yes, you are right.
I am myself making more and less output at the secondary using the input voltage and a resistor, so I do know that it increases the output by some.

But more than anything the amount of secondary output comes about as a result of the turns around the toroid.

[74turns gives 89 volts and 21turns gives 25volts using the same transistor at the same time. ]

Also, before I did any fiddling, the input voltage of 1.2v battery  gives secondary voltage of 89v, but with a 33 ohm resistor that same secondary voltage becomes 35v.
At the same time at the transistor:
C-E junction is
15v with no resistor and
10v with a 33 ohm resistor.

The bedini which is using a lot of flyback for feedback, recommends the neon to preserve the transistor.

Mostly I will back out, because I do not know about using  flyback to feedback into the system.

Thanks for your reply.
It reminded me of my own decrease by using the input resistor.

Do you know how many volts you are achieving in the flyback on yours? I know you are doing this without a scope, so I am wondering.

jeanna

Jeanna

I do not know  much  about the  voltages  that  I  have worked with  .

I  try  a coil ........if  my array  lights up  better  I keep using it ....if not  I try another .


Just for  clarity     I do not  use the  words  flyback   and feedback for the same thing .
For me  flyback  is the pulse  that is created when  a magnetic  field collapses  ( back EMF )
WIth  a simple  JT secondary  any flyback  becomes the part of the output .

For me ........feedback  is  when  I use  a winding  from a coil  to return  power to the battery .
At times  I  use  normal inductors  for flyback ..........Most of the time I  use coils  with more than one winding  so  I  can use  them for either  flyback or feedback .

I tend to  start  using  mostly  flyback ..........but to much  flyback  will  choke  the circuit ...... so I start using the larger  windings  for  feedback  rather than flyback.

I think  what happens  when  it gets near the point that the  inductors start choking  the circuit  is that the  pulse  is  flattened  by the  inductor ........ it is  at least  partly transformed into  current .
So ........sometimes ......  the voltage  goes down .....but still the LEDs get brighter .

gary