Joule Thief

[jeanna]

I would but there was no more room on the torrid.. ill have to use smaller wire.
I was trying to keep it simple , for my hula hoop design.. so i can keep the labor costs down.  One of these days ill make a JT'd hoop.

Do you thinki could keep the 6 paired winds with a 20 wind secondary? or would i need to add more then 6? Will the secondary just not work if there is not enough primary winds?

I think 6 is fine.
I am not sure, but your toroid looks like the tor-23 I buy from allelectronics. They are very small, but if you look at the XTree you will see lots of turns of mag wire, I have to look it up, but plenty of red 30 gauge mag wire fit. I just pull it tight and it slips through the space between wires and you could probably fit 20 or 30 turns in that one.. The zebra with kynar uses that 0.3 inch tor-23 and it has 7T,7T and 74Turns of kynar which is 30 gauge and the covering is a bit thicker than the varnish.

I forget you have a business purpose. I understand how the labor is an element., but either way you are going to need to string the leds along the circumference and solder the joints, or something like that, so winding a secondary is only a small addition

...

corse, maybe you are protecting the transistor with all those diodes. hmmm.

I dunno. I am just curious.

So, I will have to do it, I guess, huh?

good stuff.

jeanna

[TheNOP]

@jadaro2600
thanks, i will look in sear catalog


@all
a more complete infos on duty cycle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_cycle
witch resume to what me and jadaro2600 have sayed

To those who have a very good grounding in the electronics fields, and are able to run rings around us others with your knowledge/explinations, and we know it took you years to accumilate this wealth of knowledge, but there are others here who havent any ideas on what it is exactly you may be talking about, (and are confused easily by new termiinology) so if you could give just the very basic explination in simple ways, then us (me) slow learners would have a betta chance of understanding it.

things that are simple for me might not be to everyone, i know that.
problem is i can't make it more clearer then what i have wrote so far.
that is why i post reference links as much as possible about what i say.

to explain things any better would require more then just a few posts.
it would require 3 years of teaching at 3 ~ 4 hours per day.
that is what it took me to get my diploma 30 years ago.

if i ask you to do a test, to learn something specific.
will you be able to make something out of it if you don't even know the base ?

making experiments for learning is great.
but you have to sit down, think about the results, and understand the "what and why" before moving to the next experiment.
and if you do other experiments, it is better be to understand more clearly what you didn't understand in the previous one.
if you don't, you are missing a lot and might not be able to understand the next results either.
then term the circuit as weird, strange, illogical, magic, etc...


@all
to master the joule thief, at low or high currents, you need to get total control over the base of the transistor.
RLC, RC circuits are one way to achive this.

to get the highest voltage, at the highest currents, you also need to master induction and transformer as well.

untill you understand why i say this, you won't have much succes.
unless you are really lucky.
but then, due to componants tolerences, not all will be able to reproduce, maybe even yourself.

[jadaro2600]

@TheNOP, Jadaro2600

Thankyou both, for bringing the Duty Cycle up, and explaining it so well.

Some of my past suggestions involve the Duty Cycle, but I put it differently, I am referring to the amount of time needed to fill a capacitor, then switching between that one and then filling another capacitor, then fill a number of them.
Then switch them all together and discharge them in one go.

  C1 fill time   ST C2 fill time ST C3 fill time ST C4 fill time   ST C5 fill time  ST C6 filll time ST C7 fill time   ST C8 fill time  ST DumpTime RT
/|-------------------|-|-------------------|-|-------------------|-|--------------------|-|--------------------|-|--------------------|-|--------------------|-|--------------------|-|---------------    |--\

/       =  each cycle begins (capacitor filling stages)
|-|     =  division of times which shows where the switching stages occur
C1-8 =  Tha actual time the control circuit is allowing that capacitor to fill, weather it be to 60%, or 70% or 80% or to 100% (controled by a Tank circuit)
ST    =  Switching State Times, between each capacitor reloads
DT    =  Dump Time, the time allowed to dump the contants of all capacitors together in one go, BOOM
RT    =  time allicated to begin the whole process again.
\       =  cycle ends, and a new cycle begins.





A Pulce Width Modulation power supply does the same thing to control the speed of a DC motor.
But this different to the raising or lowering voltage.


My TWV I posted a few pages back uses the same principle to give the effect of the LEDS going round and round, but its circuit switched the LED ON, for a certain time, then the next LED is switched on and so it continues for eva.

Confession time 4 me, I had heard of the Duty Cycle years ago, but I forgot it, if that seems silly, but it happened, so thanks to Jeanna for asking her question "What is the Duty Cycle?"

@ TheNOP,
If you have a mobile ph (don't answer that), then use the camera function to post a photo of your JT, this is how I make all my photo and Tiny Videos posts here.
To those who have a very good grounding in the electronics fields, and are able to run rings around us others with your knowledge/explinations, and we know it took you years to accumilate this wealth of knowledge, but there are others here who havent any ideas on what it is exactly you may be talking about, (and are confused easily by new termiinology) so if you could give just the very basic explination in simple ways, then us (me) slow learners would have a betta chance of understanding it.

I see Bills drinking bird now very differently, as a Mechanical and electrical variable Duty Cycle controlled by "temperature" and "fuel" (water) and mother nature.

jim

I brought this up a while ago, I mentioned something called a Greinacher / Villard circuit.  THese are also called Cockroff Walton circuits....although this is component intensive, it would do basically what you have mentioned here.  Here is a picture of one. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Stacked_Villard_cascade.svg/733px-Stacked_Villard_cascade.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_multiplier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft-Walton_generator

[electricme]

@TheNOP
Thankyou, I have just been, read the wiki on the Duty Cycle.

TA


If I fed 1000v into a coil with 1000 turns of thin wire as its primary
and, if the secondary had 14 turns, would I get 14v out?

If I wound the secondary with a much thicker wire, as well, would this allow the output to be higher in amperage?


jim

[TheNOP]

I brought this up a while ago, I mentioned something called a Greinacher / Villard circuit.  THese are also called Cockroff Walton circuits....although this is component intensive, it would do basically what you have mentioned here.  Here is a picture of one. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Stacked_Villard_cascade.svg/733px-Stacked_Villard_cascade.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_multiplier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft-Walton_generator

voltage doubler don't provide lots of output currents.

might wort testing with a jt pickup coil(few hundreds volts), 2+ doubler stages and cfls.
more then 4 stage might become risky without good insulation between the caps and diodes, insulation on the trace side would be needed too.

if i remember right, currents is based on the caps values.
the higher the capacitance, the higher the output currents.