Joule Thief

[TheNOP]

Actually I knew the results before the experiment, I was only proving them for myself. As for the off center weight (the motor), the same results were produced without the motor by striking the rod. The rod length itself (a mass) determines the rate of oscillation which is the cause of the effects, in much the same way as the potential difference induced at the ends of a length of wire is determined by it's wave period as well as the magnitude of the inducing force. In any case I posted this experiment so that others could understand that resonance can happen on many levels and is a major factor in the efficiency of any system.

look
the off center weight is at play in this case.
the lenght as no other purpose then displacing the proper amount of weight to reach a frequency.

with a rotational movement the lenght is not critical, the off center mass is.

in a swinging movement the lenght is critical to get the proper mass displacement to get a specific frequency.

both ways are a bit different but achive the same thing with the same mass displacement.


i think everyone here know my opignion about frequencies by now. 


i feel like we are bloating this tread a bit with this o.t. stuff.
i would be happy to continu this discution in private with you.

[Pirate88179]

TheNop:

I'll leave that up to you but I have no problem with this discussion as I believe it is related to our efforts here.  Having a good understanding of frequency and resonance and how it relates to the JT circuit is important.  Maybe others do not agree.

I see your point about the rotational (unbalanced) motion of the pager motor. (toothbrush, same thing)  I had not accounted for that.  In that example, one could vary the rpms of the motor and greatly affect the frequency of the motion of the rod.  Anyway, this is fascinating stuff.

Bill

[TheNOP]

TheNop:

I'll leave that up to you but I have no problem with this discussion as I believe it is related to our efforts here.  Having a good understanding of frequency and resonance and how it relates to the JT circuit is important.  Maybe others do not agree.

I see your point about the rotational (unbalanced) motion of the pager motor. (toothbrush, same thing)  I had not accounted for that.  In that example, one could vary the rpms of the motor and greatly affect the frequency of the motion of the rod.  Anyway, this is fascinating stuff.

Bill

fascinating indead.

and it can become really complicated to some because the energy is, sometime, not linear in time.
meanning that the energy level at one time is not always the same then at an other time.
ex: 1uA per cycle at 1 Hz = .5uA per cycle at 2Hz
and AC curve, the max energy level is only at the peeks.

this is why we have RMS measurement, to compaire apples with apples.
but there is a problem with RMS, not only is it calculated relative to a frequency, it must also take into account the form of the signal.
there is a cosine used in the calculations of the RMS values so it will only be accurate for a pure AC signal.

if you can't make sense of the above then... 

the above does not even include energy compression concepts.
most peoples might understand that charging a capacitor is a way to compress energy.
that a coil's backemf is compressed energy.
they know those effect, but don't know why it is  compressed energy.
and, usualy, they will find it even harder to see the same at a much smaller scale combined with frequencies.

[electricme]

@all,
This topic of resonance is a very interesting thing.

Rife used the same principle to destroy cancer cells in any living tissue, how?
He found out the exact vibratory wave length of the cell concerned (all cells vibrate at different wave lengths) so he tuned his "amplifier" and just sent a wave into the cancer cell.
The cell began to vibrate until it self destruct, easy.

Because no other frequency was involved, all the other tissues were OK.

Back onto the JT and LEDs blowing, I have found a fairly circuit, but it will need a slight modification, it involves placing 2 or more 1N4007 diodes in series which can switch a couple of transistors. I have forwarded it to a member here to take a look at, hopefully it can be used as a research "tool".

@Jeanna,
I managed to take a look at your "orange" chart, I noticed on the next chart you made, you have documented the current drawn to how many LEDs you have placed in the circuit.
How many LEDs did you manage to blow to make this chart. hmm

Good work this.

jim

What does produce 1 pulse and can break glass?   a 5lb hammer  he he.

@all again,
I have medified my set 7 series wound toroid's.
I removed all 1N4004 diodes, made up 7 Bridge diodes and soldered them across each torids output coils.
 
I have removed the 1000uF 16v caps, replaced all but 1 with different uF and Voltage values.
I'm trying to see which Cap/Volt works the best.
Then as I was going to test, this setup, the batt was flat, batt on charge.
I will test this setup soonest.

jim

[stprue]

@jeanna

the core like a fine crystal wine glass has a freq , finding the right note (freq)
will make the core vibrate .Ex ; like a 440 tuning fork of A , if you tap it it will give you the note A , now if you have a tunes instrument and play the A note , the Fork will start vibrating on it own .

Ex glass breaking , crystal vibrates good if you find the right note you can break it , if not it will not vibrate and break.

So all i an saying is high freq fine but the right for the core will release more energy since the core will vibrate .

Also my point about the bridge is that if you just connect the led to it you send back energy in the coil , it usually changes the voltage for the coils in a big way . Just something to keep in mind .

Mark

That is a really interesting way to look at a ferrite.  Do you think it would be possible to have several cores set up exactly the same way, power one of them and have all the others resonate as well?  maybe not it seems like these cores vary from one to another even if they are the same like the 5 for 1$ goldmines!