Steorn News

[PaulLowrance]

You know even less about the legal system than you do about science.

If you think that you know more about science, then prove it.

Presumption of innocence only applies in the criminal courts.

People are claiming Steorn is scamming people out of millions of dollars. So is it true that you are saying that would not be a crime?

You want to say Steorn is legitimate, find some evidence to that effect.  Until then, you are the one who is speculating.

Please show me where I said Steorn is "legitimate?"  If you're referring to my list, please read the words more carefully because it's a list in *order* of legitimacy.


PL

[wizardofmars]

People are claiming Steorn is scamming people out of millions of dollars. So is it true that you are saying that would not be a crime?

If/when the Steorn investors sue, it will likely first be a civil action. There was a recent case I saw where investors got the DA involved and made it criminal, but the bar is pretty high ($50m in that case). The Steorn scam is under the $20m mark last time I checked. Who knows? If they were stupid enough to take peoples money, they deserve both civil and criminal actions.

Please show me where I said Steorn is "legitimate?"  If you're referring to my list, please read the words more carefully because it's a list in *order* of legitimacy.

LOL - so the order of legitimacy goes from almost nothing to nothing then? 

[wizardofmars]

If it's a fake or whatever, then that's not going to harm me any?  I've cheered on plenty of people and companies who have failed, but at least I could say that I morally supported them. So far I don't see any evidence of scam.

False claims are harmful in general.

As a specific example - investments in some of these scams come via money managers who manage funds for people who don't have any options e.g. pension funds like CALPERS are a major investor in venture capital and hence indirectly in scams like Blacklight Power. So yes, it does harm lots of people to 'cheer them on'.

BTW, that paper, from Dr. Mike, says, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither hoax nor scam.  It is delusion."  In case you would like to know, Dr. Mike only met Sean. That's all. So Dr. Mike was speculating.

Right. He speculated in mid 2007 that based on his first hand experience (which is more than anyone here has) that the CEO is delusional.

The facts - claims of breaking the laws of physics, total secrecy, broken commitments over three years- fit Dr Mike's delusional CEO hypothesis much more than the perpetual motion hypothesis. As time goes on, my speculation tips more towards scam because at some point they will throw out a delusional CEO.

[PaulLowrance]

If/when the Steorn investors sue, it will likely first be a civil action. There was a recent case I saw where investors got the DA involved and made it criminal, but the bar is pretty high ($50m in that case). The Steorn scam is under the $20m mark last time I checked. Who knows? If they were stupid enough to take peoples money, they deserve both civil and criminal actions.

LOL - so the order of legitimacy goes from almost nothing to nothing then? 

No, my diode array is at the top of the list. So it goes from conclusively confirmed to highly questionable. 

If anyone questions my diode array results, then contact me. We'll set up a legal business deal. If an unbiased 3rd party verifies that my diode array is producing a DC voltage across a load then you buy it for lots of $. If not, then I buy whatever you want to sell.

False claims are harmful in general.

That's where we differ. You wrongfully adhere to the weak idea that just because it hasn't happened yet in the history books that it never will. Take a stroll down history lane and you'll see the error in your thinking process. It's closed minded debunker's that do more harm than inventors.

The facts - claims of breaking the laws of physics, total secrecy, broken commitments over three years- fit Dr Mike's delusional CEO hypothesis much more than the perpetual motion hypothesis. As time goes on, my speculation tips more towards scam because at some point they will throw out a delusional CEO.

Hey, put your money where your mouth is. You think my diode array is a scam. Send me an email and we'll start working on the deal. I'll make it a huge media event. My contact page -->

http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/contact/

I'll be waiting.

PL

[utilitarian]

No, my diode array is at the top of the list. So it goes from conclusively confirmed to highly questionable. 

If anyone questions my diode array results, then contact me. We'll set up a legal business deal. If an unbiased 3rd party verifies that my diode array is producing a DC voltage across a load then you buy it for lots of $. If not, then I buy whatever you want to sell.

The wager you are proposing already exists in completely legal form.  James Randi has made his $1 million challenge available to proponents of perpetual motion.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html

I would personally be willing to wager with you up to $100,000, but right now I have no idea if what you are claiming even violates any laws of physics (i.e. producing energy from nothing), and I really do not have much faith in being able to collect any money from a stranger on the Internet.  Anyway, $1 million is a much sweeter offer, and you risk nothing in return except for being debunked, so I urge you to take the Randi Challenge.