Stanley Meyers and the VIC/injector

[dankie]

http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4302ao9.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=430or5.jpg


I have come to the conclusion that stainless steel is not more expensive than copper , it is just more bastardly to acquire . Ive had people say to me to follow the KISS method 6 months ago and to forget the idea , well ... this is the KISS method my friend.

This may be also due to the stumbling industrial base , maybe it was more common in Stan's days but I can see why this coil has never been reproduced properly .

If somebody were to respect Stan words when he describes the VIC coil 6-1 and 7-1 , Stan says resistance of 11.6k ohms per choke is suitable .

You would need about 2.3 pounds or about 28,000 feet of 36 awg wire ... @ 90$ a pound... thats 200$ per coil ... you need 2 coils...  so thats 400$ per VIC

http://www.planetengineers.com/default.asp?cat=Wire%2C+Magnet

With stainless steel 430 FR you can make a 11,6 k choke with 590 feet , times 2 ... thats 1180 feet  ... Thats 47.6 times less wire if same AWG is used .

With 1 pound of stainless steel 430 FR you can make 10 VIC

With 4.5 pounds of copper you can make one VIC ...

Not to mention way way way less winding to do

So it just makes sense to use S/S wire instead , less time to wind , 10 times cheaper to make 1 choke  + we are respecting what Stan is saying .

[dankie]

You should know that only a few classes of alloy are meant to be used as coil wire .

Plz read and compares quote # 6 with what carpenter is saying .

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6299/4302ao9.jpg

http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=103&e=63&c=techart

http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1562


Taken from carpenter...

Saturation induction or magnetization (Bs) â€" this is the force that can be applied via a magnetic core to overcome mechanical forces (i.e. springs). High magnetic saturation allows development of a strong magnetic field, enabling control devices like solenoids and fuel injectors to function with as little input energy as possible. The higher the magnetic saturation or induced field, the more force can be applied and the greater the mechanical efficiency of the control component. Likewise, the higher the magnetic saturation the smaller and lighter the component can be designed without any loss in performance.
â€" this is the force that can be applied via a magnetic core to overcome mechanical forces (i.e. springs). High magnetic saturation allows development of a strong magnetic field, enabling control devices like solenoids and fuel injectors to function with as little input energy as possible. The higher the magnetic saturation or induced field, the more force can be applied and the greater the mechanical efficiency of the control component. Likewise, the higher the magnetic saturation the smaller and lighter the component can be designed without any loss in performance.

Permeability â€" High permeability means that less magnetizing force, with smaller applied field, is needed to obtain desired performance. High permeability induces high magnetism, allowing the design of smaller, cheaper components that can perform with greater efficiency and with less power input.

[/b]
Coercive Force (Hc) - this force permits rapid demagnetization, essential in opening and closing devices such as valves and injectors quickly. The lower the force required to open and close without "sticking", the better. Low coercive force, for example, can permit design of a smaller spring to allow a fuel injector to operate in harmony with a higher speed cylinder.
) - this force permits rapid demagnetization, essential in opening and closing devices such as valves and injectors quickly. The lower the force required to open and close without "sticking", the better. Low coercive force, for example, can permit design of a smaller spring to allow a fuel injector to operate in harmony with a higher speed cylinder.

Electrical Resistivity â€" High electrical resistivity is desirable because it impedes the formation of wasteful eddy current in AC or rapidly pulsed DC applications. High resistivity means that less power is needed to drive the control device. Low eddy current loss results in a more responsive device which becomes more important as operating speeds increase.
â€" High electrical resistivity is desirable because it impedes the formation of wasteful eddy current in AC or rapidly pulsed DC applications. High resistivity means that less power is needed to drive the control device. Low eddy current loss results in a more responsive device which becomes more important as operating speeds increase.

[Farlander]

@ Ramset -- thank you for the recognition, it's certainly the first time anybody has commended me for water fuel research.

@Dankie -- excellent information.  I understand the significance of the stainless wire now.  Copper wire has a low permeability in comparison, meaning that current flowing near it will not generate a very large magnetic field.  Stainless on the other hand, comprised of a lot of iron and nickel, is highly permeable, thus very electro-magnetic.  The chokes should be wound of stainless so they generate stronger fields to impede electron leakage.

Also, the graph from video 6? of the Colorado Free Energy series talks about the exponential rise in HHO production with rise in voltage... how interesting.

Ok Dankie, I"m on board with your team idea, if it's still active.  Here's my status:

I have been corresponding with some electrical engineers and we redesigned the Lawton D14 circuit.  Some resistor values have been changed, and the driver circuit has been improved.  I'm waiting for parts to arrive on Monday so I can rebuild it, again.  I hope I can test soon using my stainless steel plate configuration.
I am committed to seeing this thing through to the end and I will give/take as much help as I can.   For now, most of what I know is on my site -- a lot of Meyers patents and diagrams can be found there.  It's still a mess but getting there.

The way I see it though we need to figure out the automatic resonant detector.
Ciao

[dankie]

better hurry up , only have 3 pounds left @ 400$ a pound .

Specs and info is there , very informative thread , you can also see some of my very satisfied customers...

http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1185

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BeojLzAlDc&feature=related ( most high performance fuel injector are made with 430FR )

http://www.asminternational.org/pdf/misc/cartech.pdf

Quote from advanced materials and processes :

Type 430FR has the best magnetic properties and lowest residual magnetism of all the stainless steels .

[fritz]

Its very easy to understand:

If you want to maximize the energy transmission from a "fixed" source to an oscillating circuit - you need a short pulse and low damping. ( think on how you excite a tuning fork - if you stay in contact with the tuningfork after touch down - too much damping).
On Meyers mechanical hv contact assemblys - the oscillation of the cell is only damped by the ionized air on opening the switch.
If you feed pulses with his vic setup - you need high voltage. To achieve step charging - there has to be more energy comming in (during the pulse) - than is drained in between the pulses because of dc current thru the chokes.
The vic setup allows a low(or lets say right) impedance - high power pulse to be transmitted - but acts as high inductance - high resistance - high impedance thing between the pulses.
I read somewhere that the impedance of one choke was around 14.3k Ohm ?
If you calculate how much copper wire you would need for such coil - ss is a nice option - this is how you come down to a reasonable sized coil.
Another option would be to have all impedances/freq. matched - that you could achieve that without high resistive wire. At some point it was said that Meyer used ss wire setup as additional feature to protect his invention - because you can overcome the problem from both sides.

Lots of people don´t understand his "pulsetrains".
He means a "train" of pulses - not a pulse-train alike voltage from a voltage source. He means - pulse - high-z -pulse-high-z .....

After building some vic things (not with ss - just to understand the principle) - I´m now up to build a solid state hv switcher - because this should be somehow easier to tune.

On an VIC setup - everything influences each other - thats in combination with the ss wire a difficult job.

rgds.