Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!

[robbie47]

@groundloop,
Sorry about the confusion with my alternative drawing.
Indeed I realized that my suggested circuit would not work, since back EMF would be diverted into the coils other end as well.
I understand your motives on your circuit, however I am still not happy with the negative pulse on the emitter, because that will not cause the battery to charge.

And, indeed as you indicated, charging and discharging will not work at the same time, although I still think that it will always be sequential when using switched coils:
First you charge the coil with current (discharging the battery).
Then switch off charging the coil (and thus stopping the discharging of the battery). Switching off coil charging will always cause high voltage at that very moment if current can not continue to flow ( this is the back EMF). This high voltage can drive charging the battery again.
But indeed, voltage and current are out of phase. Good point. I have no answer to your question however.....

I'll keep trying to find new suggestions for your circuit. It is an intriguing one 

Just for the other forum readers, I attached the erroneous circuit that I planned to suggest but deleted earlier. Once more: it will not work as intended, although it will give a positive back EMF pulse on the collector of the transistor.

Maybe I will give it a try, because back EMF is a very steep pulse that will not be returning current to the same coil as easy as charging the battery (this is actually a capacitor)
Steep pulses contain much high frequency components (according to Fourier).
Coil impedance is high for high frequencies (Z = j * 2 * pi  * f * L),
while battery impedance will be low for high frequencies (Z = 1/ (j * 2 *pi * f * C)), where L = coil value in Henry and C = capacity in Farad)

Would be good to know how big the capacity value of such a lead acid batter is. I would not be surprised if it is a few Farads
Your coils will probably have values in the range of micro Henry's. So, the question is how big would the impedance of the coil be in relation to the impedance of the battery in case of a sharp back EMF pulse period.

[Groundloop]

@robbie47,

>>I understand your motives on your circuit, however I am still not happy with the >>negative pulse on the emitter, because that will not cause the battery to charge.

I agree with you. There should be no charging by the negative pulse but since
this is an oscillator the positive going pulse will charge. This can be seen by
the scope image. Now since we allow the negative to freely swing down to -65
volt or so, then we must assume that the positive pulse will do the same.
But we use a diode to the battery so half of the source dipole is back in the battery.

Now if we could use a little of the negative pulse to charge then maybe we can
get this circuit go o/u?

Groundloop.

[robbie47]

@groundloop:

Now if we could use a little of the negative pulse to charge then maybe we can
get this circuit go o/u?

I only can think of one way at this moment: using a second battery.
But that would be off topic  and back to real Bedini setups.

The strength of your setup is in the rotor however to my opinion. It acts as a magnetic bridge.
Something is happening there that is not quite understood, at least not by me.

[AbbaRue]

@Groundloop
Thanks for the reply. So my first assumption was correct.
The diodes in series lower the voltage draw from the battery.

I think I understand how a Bedini motor functions. 
About a year ago I was contemplating the following concept: (I will condense it as much as possible to get the point across)
If you energize an air core coil near a magnet with the proper polarity, the coil will attract the magnet.
If the magnet is allowed to move, as it moves towards the coil it's magnetic field will cross the windings of the coil.
As the coil cuts the magnets lines of force a current is induced in the coil.
The closer the magnet gets to the coil the greater the current flow that is induced. (A simple generator)
Also the closer the magnet and coil get the greater the magnetic attraction between them.(Acceleration takes place)
So the two forces work together and an increase in energy should be the result.
Then if you cut power at the right moment a back emf is produced which will repel the magnet away from the coil.
All that is needed for this to work is a means of allowing the magnet to move to and from the coil freely.
This condition is met by placing the magnet on a rotating disk.  Thus the Bedini motor is born.

Of coarse you don't need an air core coil for this to work, I just mentioned it to make the point that the magnet is
attracted only by the coils magnetic field and not by the iron core.

Addendum:
The second winding on the core causes a current to flow to the base of the transistor as the magnet approaches the  coil. (turning it on)
And then once the magnet passes it's closest point to the coil and starts moving away this causes the current to flow
in the opposite direction which turns the transistor off and causes it to switch to the opposite direction as well.
So in theory the second winding that goes to the transistor base shouldn't need to be as many windings.
Only enough windings to switch the transistor. 
But that second winding works best if it is placed on the same core so it switches exactly at the closest point of the magnet and coil.
If is is wound separately then fine tuning would be needed to get the timing right.

[Groundloop]

Hi,

I have run a test with the motor (rotor stopped) in solid state mode with
a 9 volt 160mA Nicad battery. The start voltage on the small battery
was 7,50 volt. Now, 5 hours later, the battery has drained down to 6,05 volt.
This confirms that the circuit itself is under unity. The voltage gain I noticed
when using a lead acid battery is probably due to the battery going through
a process of eliminating sulphur buildup on the battery plates.

Groundloop.