Pressure based idea

[sm0ky2]

G'day Gravitator,

How will you keep the water from boiling? If you maintain a vacuum above the water the water will boil at ambient temperatures and your vacuum pumps will have to work overtime.

Hans von Lieven

I believe he is not refering to a true 'vacuum'.  but rather a negative pressure area, created by filling the tank, then allowing it to compress the ar. the "bubble" will be lower pressure than the bottom of the tank, because of the weight of the water inside. possibly some air in that bubble, but a very small ammount. not enough pressure difference to alter the boiling point much.  Its the same thing that hapens at the top inside of a Water Tower when they fill it up and people start running their showers and whatnot.

i might be misunderstanding this device the way its drawn here, but....

    the problem in having with this is, that the pressure in the pool will in most cases equal that of the pressure tank. and in one specific case be greater than.

im not seeing how this interacts with the air inside, and if it did, the great pressure would simply compress said air, and the pistons would stop moving.

if the air were already compressed too much the pistons would push open until they stopped or balanced our the pressure, and again stop moving.

unfortunately, in a closed system, the efects of gravity do increase the pressure, but it is mostly constant throughout each separated section.

if the pool were "open", what would stop the pressure tank from overflowing the pool and leveling out all the water??


   just my thoughts...,
     
                                  Sm0ky

[hansvonlieven]

G'day Smoky,

In an inverted water tank such as the one shown, with a water column of 9.81 m and a space on top, if that space does nor contain air, the vacuum will be hard. Water will boil.

Hans von Lieven

[Gravitator]

Thank you all for your reply I found something about "vapour pressure" and "hydrostatic paradox".
And I think

@hans
You are right! The water will boil.


@All

The more I think about the "pressure difference" assumption the less I believe that there are such a difference.
So I guess the idea described in these two pictures is busted



@truh

This "gravity is a conservative force" is little bit mystery to me. At some level I understand this but...
It seems that it is used as a general argument when dropping ideas.


How can the "gravity is a conservative force" used in next situation ?

Because of this (see the picture) I think there might be a way to use gravity as energy source.
If we ignore at this point the technical issues and the question of how long will it take to
move water from bottom to top and keep the focus in energy point of view, I think that it is possible
to get energy from gravitation.

Here are the steps and who is paying as I see them.

1. The system is locked as long the water is moved from tank B to tank A. The actual work is
   done by atmosphere air pressure. If the height is e.g. 7 meter, I think the water will not boil.

2. In step two the lock will be released. This means that the tank A will fall down. What I think is
   that tank A will have so much kinetic energy that it is possible to lock the system in it's original
   state. This time the empty tank on the top will be B and the tank filled with water would be A.


And this way I think potential energy can be created "from nothing" using atmosphere air pressure.

[Gravitator]

Here is one more pictures for "gravity is a conservative force" example I posted in my previous post.
This idea is my first post in here and I'm not trying to lift it up again. I took this pictures here because
it clarifies little bit better what I mean when I say "so much kinetic energy". And against these
values it has been calculated that this should be possible. The negative comments where

1. with 10 000 liters of water it has so much energy that it will take really a lot of time
   to wait the system stops after release.

2. it is VERY difficult to build so big piston because of expansion (pressure, temperature etc.)


and positve comment was

1. It seems that with these example weights the system will stop in "correct position" for
   next tank filling.


But like I told you - this is not a suggestion for machine again but rather little bit more information
for my previous post.

BR,
Gravitator

[truth]

@ gravitator,

I am glad that you took the time to understand what was being shared with you.

I had a very similar idea to what you are now posting. The pressure required to move water to a height is much greater than atmospheric pressure
Water is more dense than air. That is why water stays at the lowest point it can. Lakes and rivers are great examples of this.
Is a hydroelectric dam solar powered?   I say YES.  That is how sea water gets back up to the top of the mountain.
.
In the hydrostatic paradox a liquid of any shape has the same pressure at a specific height anywhere in that liquid no matter what the shape of the vessel.
Have you ever seen a garden hose used as a water level? 
A little experiment:
Take a water proof bag and put water in it. Place a hose into the bag, Seal the hose and the bag by twisting.  Now press on the bag to release the air. Keep the open end of the hose above the bag. Now feel the pressure required to push just a little water out of the hose when raised by even a few inches, and then try it at a foot or two. I think you will understand the problem with your idea then.

Learning is always a good thing.