Aiming @ the VIC coil

[Shanti]

It was my understanding that he chose the 430F/FR wire for BOTH the added resistance AND the magnetic properties.

Yes, I also understood it that way from his papers. I think using magnetic wire (430F) has the advantage to additionally help increasing the inductance, as the wire itself acts like a "ferrite" core and increases the magnetic field.

Also, early version were 1000v - I think - maybe lower as the 1N1198 diode, I think only goes to 600vdc or maybe it was 1200vdc - can't recall.

I think there lies the real keypoint. Some time ago, I also studied deeply Stan's papers.
And I came to a different idea, how his VIC functions. And This allows very high voltages (40KV) but with a diode of only 600VDC, which Stan described.
It has been stated before the bifliars in his paper are wrongly connected. Well are they?
Let's look at it closer. If the coils are connected as suggested by Room3327, then they work so, that one has a plus 20kV at the WFC and the other a -20kV. But as we know, and as many have already found out, this high voltage at the cell will also produce dramatic resistive losses in the water. Additionally the diode of only 600V wouldn't make sense, as it would surely immediately blow up. But what's interesting is, that the diodes he suggested are made to withstand quite a lot of amperage!
Another IMHO the main trash factor for the + - coil theory is the fact that he wound his coils bifilar. If they would have been wound bifilar with one coil going + and the other coil going -. Then the potential difference between neighbouring wires of the two coils would be tens of  kV. And surely no enamelled wire (like Stan used) would be able to withstand these voltages...And there is no way in winding a bifilar coil, without this huge potential differences between neighbouring wires except one: Both coils step up the voltage in the same direction, and on the same absolute potential levels!

These are the points, why I suggested he really wound the VIC so, that one of the bifilar coil would put e.g. +20KV on the WFC and the other one also +20KV! Both the same polarity!
Now the diode only has to withstand the voltage from the secondary (the third coil), so 600VDC would be enough.
Now how should this work?
Well first the circuit starts step by step to generate the high voltage. As both electrodes have the same polarity, electrons get sucked from the water in the coils. Well it's not completely correct, that both electrodes do have the same polarity, as the voltage of the secondary will be seen as voltage difference on the plates (this voltage difference is what you see as the "step charging"-voltage on the WFC, what you don't see is, that the absolute potential of the WFC rises very high). This allows the water molecules to align themselves in the cell.
As the bondings in the water molecules are due to sharing electrons, the bonding of some molecules get weakened if the electrons get stripped, as they don't anymore have something to share...
Now is the time, to tear the already weakened molecules apart by issuing a strong Potential difference on the electrodes. This happens when the stopping of the pulses of the transformer happens, and also the bifilars which were pos before now become very negative (flyback). This tears the molecules apart and also impresses an electron backrush into the cell. E.g. for a very short time quite a strong current will flow...
In this case, his "resonance" would be nothing else, than the correct timing of the transformer circuit, e.g. similar like in every other common flyback too. So that you make sure, the current will never flow in the other direction, as long as you are in the step up. As soon as the current goes down to 0 you immediately give out the next pulse...

Well this was just on of my ideas I had some time ago about the VIC. I did quit with Stan due to other things. So it is certainly not to be taken as the ultimate solution, but just as another idea, why it could make sense, that both bifilars have the same polarity...
It would be interesting to know, what others thinks about that?
@Room3327: Especially your opinion as professional in flyback circuits would interest me. As I have not much experience in this kind of circuits, especially a flyback in such a "strange" configuration. For me it's quite puzzling to think how exactly such a flyback will perform, as when it is like in my idea, the bifilars will cancel each other out, and will therefore not be seen as inductance in the WFC circuit. But they will certainly share the magnetic field with the primary and secondary and therefore get a voltage induced...
This means, any amperage which will flow through both the bifilars will not alter the magnetic field of the core (well except the current that will flow due to the "sucking" electrons, as this current will not flow as an usual "close circuit" current). So the bifilars act only as an absolute voltage step-up down from the WFC. And the WFC itself sees only the voltage from the secondary. And as is said by conventional physics: The absolute potential is not relevant (Actually you can't even define an absolute potential, as you can only sense/measure potential differences as E-Fields). But this opinion I personally strongly reject. E.g. if you have two faraday cages, one on a much higher potential level than the other, e.g. 100 MV higher, then for you there's no possibility to find out in which cage you are, you can't feel the "absolute" potential. Everything according to current physics behaves the same, no matter in which cage you are. But I have the suggestion that there is a difference in behaviour...
One could also suggest, that this absolute voltage up down on the WFC has some serious effect on the water. E.g. Dr Stifflers work here goes in a similar direction, and already Tesla described how to split water with just putting one wire into the water! So maybe this principle can be improved by having additionally a voltage between the plates (from the secondary), to keep the molecules aligned, or even the ions seperated.

Another interesting thing would then be, why using magnetic wire (430F), is that if you wound them bifilar as I suggested , the coils would usually not perfectly cancel each other. JLN made some interesting tests with some bifilars/bucking coils and showed that they still have some inductive effects, which are quite special.
I think this is due to the fact, that right at the place where the two coils are very near each other some magnetic interrelation does exist. The actual core in the middle is too far away and will have almost no influence on this. But I think if you now use magnetic wire, then as described before the magnetic properties of the wire will help increasing the local field. So the "strange" properties of this bifilar coil should be quite increased. So like that it would make sense using magnetic wire, and not just a bigger core ferrite. Otherwise it wouldn't, at least to me...
So anyone which could organize some enamelled 430F wire, could do a nice test. Wire a bifilar out of this magnetic wire, and at the same time wire an identical bifilar but with conventional copper wire. Then take a little PWM circuit and an oscilloscope and test how these two coils behave, and how their behaviour differs.

What puzzles me is his mentioning of the "bidirectional" wired primary winding. What did he mean by that?
If it is meant bifilar, and also wired like in the second pic in this thread, it wouldn't make sense. As then the primary would cancel it's own magnetic field, and therefore never ever produce any voltage in the secondary...
Anyway the second pic has to be wrong, as it is shown, the primary gets connected to the cell, which is not true...

[dankie]

It was my understanding that he chose the 430F/FR wire for BOTH the added resistance AND the magnetic properties.

Just the bifilar chokes are the SS wire and the rest is regular magnet wire.

The SS wire is part of the core.  Isn't that why it's wound on the inner layer?  My understanding, or maybe he said it in one of the videos, is that the bifilar windings magnetic field is increased using this method to help hold back amperage flow.  But then I don't have any experience winding coils. 

I think Dankie or someone is going to have to build one that's modular and take measurements with a good lcr meter.  I say modular so the bifilar can be changed easily without rebuilding the whole dam thing because I don't think anyone knows how to the calculations when the coil becomes part of the core due to the magnetic properties of the wire.

Mikemongo

I was thinking along those lines as well Mikemongo , the wire is very slightly magnetic when you put a refrigerator magnet close to it , it also has 19.75 ohms per foot .

[Room3327]

@All
      Good posts you guys you are really using your heads.  But there is another explanation for the SS wire on the inner winding that no one has considered, it's always funner to make magic out of things.  The purpose for the SS wire in the the inner core probably has more to do with balancing the two flyback coils.  Remember SS has more resistance then copper, the turn length on the inner bobbin is much shorter then the turn length on the outer bobbin.  To balance the coil resistance Stan was probably winding the SS on the inner bobbin (shorter total winding length for the same number of turns) and the copper on the outside (longer total winding length ,same number of turns) to balance the impedance's.  This would entail nonmagnetic stainless to avoid the magic and incalculable things that would crop up with magnetic SS.
   Now lets discuss Stans transformers a little more.  I say transformers because he had a number of them and different ways of hooking things up.   One method he used was the two transformer approach where he used a input transformer to feed the flyback (his best design I believe).  He says the turns ratio was 3 to 1 (on the input transformer), If this is pulsed with 120 volts that would produce about 400 volts at the output of it.  That 400 volts is then fed through two inductors to the WFC.  The two inductors are on the same core and act as a flyback transformer.  The diode in the circuit only see's the reverse voltage of 400 volts and applies that 400 volts across the WFC ( as a DC signal) when the signal is stopped the flyback action occurs and delivers a very HV pulse to the WFC as the field colapses across the flyback coils (the flyback of the input transformer is also added to total flyback voltage and it's resistance is also part of the circuit) the diode is forward biased at this point and it always is, in flyback mode. Thereby allowing a 600 volt diode to be used and still be able to deliver a Very High Voltage pulse to the WFC.  So as I see it he was step charging the cell with about 400 volts lining the molecules up and then zapping them with HV to yank them apart.

P.S. By bidirectional he means that the primary wire is wound back and forth on the bobin like most transformers.  The flyback is wound unidirectionally, from one end to the other in the segments( in order to contain the HV).

[Room3327]

@All
      I suppose I should talk about the bifilar coils that Stan used and probably why he used them.  If you run a little test that I did, and I did it over and over because I couldn't believe it myself.  Wind a small bifilar coil out of any  small gauge wire and put it on a core it doesn't really matter what kind.  Now take this little coil and measure the inductance across each one of the two windings.  You will have L1 and L2 in henrys or millihenrys or whatever. Now tie the starting wire of one coil to the finish wire of the other and measure the inductance across the two free wires.  Instead of the reading being L1+L2 it is 2 X L1+L2 or 4 times the inductance of one of the coils.  This method, which is Tesla's, is a pretty slick way to increase inductance (it also increases total coil capacitance as well and you can actually run them at there own resonant frequency) .  But a bifilar coil, used as a flyback transformer, cannot put out much voltage because of the insulation between wires therefore it is better to build the flyback as 2 separate coils on the same core.  If it is built on U core with a bobbin on each leg, the coils are much easier to match and easier to wind.  If each coil is wound as a bifilar winding and connected as I said the total inductance is much higher in the finished transformer.

[dankie]

I will be selling 1/5 pounds on ebay for 100$ +

1/5 pounds will have 3500+ feet and will be enough for 3 coils

I will be about 20 times cheaper than any competition on the planet

http://www.a-msystems.com/electronics/wire/stainlesssteelsingletef.aspx