Kelving generator to separate salt ions

[Creativity]

I got to think in last night let us say "pre dreaming" state of mind

What do u guys think would happen if we put a strong salt solution into the water than would run in the Kelvin generator?
My idea was that it would separate ions of the salt into two cups.Having both ions in separate cups makes it a great battery if electrodes inserted.Also some H2 and other gases may be produced.

To take it step further..if we add some detergents,we may lower the water tension to the point when water drop will be very small and carrying relatively more static charge on it's surface.At some point it may be a break even situation.If we count all the ions (in volume) and static charge (on the surface) transported in tiny drops of water,we may get enough electricity to run a small pump to pour water back to the top container in Kelvin generator.

[Shanti]

Lol, I really like that int the recent times, the Kelvin Generator has resurfaced, as I think it is really an interesting machine, which can give OU, as I described in another thread. But not a lot of OU, so imperfections in the conversion process would kill any OU. At least if my calculations are correct. I surely didn't consider all variables, but I hope the most important ones...

What do u guys think would happen if we put a strong salt solution into the water than would run in the Kelvin generator?
My idea was that it would separate ions of the salt into two cups.

Sure it would. This is actually what a Kelvin Generator does do! This is why I also already proclaimed this principle for generating drinking water from sea water...But other principles are probably more economically efficient, e.g. like reverse osmosis...

Having both ions in separate cups makes it a great battery if electrodes inserted.

Well it would just be such a good battery, as it already is! If you put salt in it or not is actually not that important. With the salt getting some good results is easier. Without it, the autoprotolysis will do the job of water ion generation.
But the "Battery" you generate is, as is also shown in the vids on the net just good enough to give a decent high voltage low amp discharge.

Also some H2 and other gases may be produced.

I agree. This has been discussed here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6499.0

To take it step further..if we add some detergents,we may lower the water tension to the point when water drop will be very small and carrying relatively more static charge on it's surface.

Sure for the same layout a smaller droplet would make the relative ion concentration higher, but on the same time the reachable end-voltage would diminish. And the end-voltage, as it is fed back does increase the relative ion concentration... Simply said: The "charged rings" do generate a certain field strength. And the maximum charge a drop can have when falling down, is determined by this. Which actually means, this determines how many ions this drop can have, and all the other water molecules or ions in balance (always two balancing ions) that are coming with it, are neutral. But they are needed, so that the drop does have enough potential gravitational energy, to reach the cup.

If we count all the ions (in volume) and static charge (on the surface) transported in tiny drops of water,we may get enough electricity to run a small pump to pour water back to the top container in Kelvin generator.

A Kelvin Generator does just make some electrical Energy out of mechanical Energy. In a perfect environment, with no air drag, no electric losses to the air, etc... it would have a conversion efficiency of 100%.  So nothing mystic or special about this process. And sure you could use this electric power to pump some water back. And if you also could do this without any losses, you would have a self running PM machine. But it would only run itself, without any additional energy.

In simple terms: A Kelvin Generator is kind like two upside down Van de Graff generators, one plus the other minus. And the potential gravitational energy does give the energy that a drop gets a charge, and additionally that the cups at the bottom are able to accumulate charge against it's actual repelling electrostatic field.

[Creativity]

ur post is perplexing first u state it can give OU then u kill urself with contra arguments

But anyhow.High voltage on the rings won't come from the cups itself, it is even better when the two are not connected as u can constantly drain power out of cups without affecting the generator efficiency. I had much better design prepared,where another set of cups or capacitor keeps the high efield on the rings.

Will have to read this other topics on ou what u suggested.But i had similar thoughts i think(also wanted to make it to desalt water ,but as a byproduct )

Higher concentration of salt does make a difference.The more salt the more ions will be separated per given volume of water filled in top chamber.So the higher the concentration the less work has to be done to pump water back(less "dead" mass of working fluid).At some concentration point it may deliver more electrochemical energy per drop than the potential energy of the drop itself contains.

Next to it, if u separate buckets electrically from rings as i suggested, u may use low voltage from the electrodes put inside of the buckets.If u start to drain electricity as the drip takes place u will end up with the voltage level dictated by the electrochemical potential of the salt u used.In this variant u r not using the voltage on the outer bucket,in fact bucket can be made nonconductive.High ion concentration will then translate to high current at the low voltage.

[Shanti]

ur post is perplexing  first u state it can give OU then u kill urself with contra arguments

Lol, what I meant was, that the electric generation is not OU, as it is simply explained by conventional electrostatic laws. But if the water gets ionized by another source (e.g. ambient heat), then the Kelvin Generator can separate them and you will get OU, as you will get the recombination energy later, when you put them again together.

I think this is about what you had in mind corresponding your battery idea, if I now understood correctly?

[Creativity]

to back up my idea with some calculations:

One mole of NaCl is  58.5 g.
When ionised every atom of Na looses one electron (and Cl gains one) giving a charge difference of about 96500 Coulomb per mole of NaCl (Faraday constant).

One Ampere hour is 3600Coulomb,so by separating 58.5g of NaCl i get 96500/3600 = 26,8 Ah.

Now at the potential of electrodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_standard_electrode_potentials):

Na   -2.71 V and Cl2 +1.36 V =4.07V

I can get 26,8Ah*4.07V=109 Wh and with 1 Wh = 3600 J it gives a total of 392400J.

Work to lift 58.5g to 1 meter height is 0.0585*9.81*1=0.574 J.

So now if concentration of salt was 1g per liter of water.
Total work to lift this mass to 1 m would be 1.001*9,81*1=9.82 J.
If all ions get separated it would give 392400/58.5 = 6707J worth electric energy.