ENERGY AMPLIFICATION

[Magluvin]

Hey Mags,
This zener thing is nagging me. Maybe if we can crack it, we'll be that much closer.
Something in this piece, "The Zener Effect" sure sounds like energy amplification during avalanche breakdown:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/zener.html
Text:Good to see you back.
Bob

Hey Bob

Ill read up on that.  I asked Tito if the zener was used as a spark gap in pm, and he said BIG YES.

Where we were in all this at the time, something just clicked and I asked him. But even though I had the thought, I have not been able to conjure up as to how it is used that way.  My initial thoughts were that the zener would be able to cut off the gap flow like the magnets blowing out the spark.  But then when I think about a 3v zener, seems unlikely. So Ive been stuck on that one for a while. What, 5 years now. Sometimes I feel like Ive done some good stuff here, but sometimes I feel like what was it all for. 

If I think of anything else, Ill post it.  If I had the answers, they would be here on this page.

Mags

[forest]

well, one usage , though is not that important is to replace a diode with zener diode. Sometimes it is used in bridge rectifier also !
Example : you have a 12V lead acid battery and a diode from positive terminal to the buffer large capacitor.Then you have your magic device which once run from that battery will recharge capacitor to 15V, 16V for example and there is no more drain from battery. Then to recharge battery you replace diode with 3V zener diode and it then pass some current back to battery when voltage on capacitor is rised say to 16V. Personally I would not use it in any production system, but with a second zener 15V diode and resistor to limit voltage directly across battery it may replace complex recharging system.
Another usage which I imagine is to create very high frequency spikes in nanoseconds. Another usage as a spark gap usage seems to be limited to Tesla circuit with two capacitors    and may allow for example to get cold current from a main grid socket easily , though I naever checked it in reality...just use 630V PP caps with a transformer between them and then the rest of Tesla circuit replacing the parallel spark gap with a high power zener or better transil of 30kW at least on radiator (depending how much power you need to convert) - it won't give you much power but up to 100W is still nice and we can go with all experiments Tesla did.

[Dave45]

Yea our country is being sold out

Been thinking about water separation, now that I know a little about a little 

[Cadman]

Guys, I have been puzzling over the 'zeener as a spark gap' for months and this is the only thing that sort of makes sense to me. Please bear with me here.

The circuit below generates high frequency currents. P' S' is a low freq transformer with reactance coil X and P" S" the high freq. When the spark gap G is properly adjusted it will fire and produce the wave pictured below. The rapid oscillations feed to P".

When the spark gap fires it completes the circuit and allows the cap discharge to oscillate back and forth between the two cap plates due to electric inertia. For one cap firing through the gap the entire energy from the cap passes through P" several times, losing a little on each pass. The total effective energy to P" is still several times the initial cap charge. When the oscillation energy dies down enough the spark gap ceases to conduct.

So the question is, how can a zeener be used to emulate the behavior of the spark gap? It must not conduct until a high voltage is reached, and once that threshold is met it must conduct in both directions until the cap oscillations die down (to 3 volts?). Would it require a switch as well as the zeener?

Will someone with better knowledge please modify and repost the circuit below with a zeener replacing the spark gap so that the function is as described above?

[gyulasun]

...
So the question is, how can a zeener be used to emulate the behavior of the spark gap? It must not conduct until a high voltage is reached, and once that threshold is met it must conduct in both directions until the cap oscillations die down (to 3 volts?). Would it require a switch as well as the zeener?
...

Hi Cadman,

I modified your schematic to include two Zener and two normal (but fast) diodes connecting them as shown. The extra diodes in series with the Z diodes are needed to prevent current flow via the Z diodes when the polarity of the AC voltage across the Z diodes would forward bias them, in these instances the normal diodes block the current. This adds an extra 0.7V to the Z voltage (the normal diode conducts in forward direction when the Zener diode conducts in its reverse Z direction).
Of course, you would have to connect several Z diodes in series to add up their Z voltages to reach an AC peak level where you wish the diodes to conduct i.e. to choose the "spark gap" voltage.  And at the initial tests with these Z diodes the use of a resistor in series with the diodes to limit the AC peak current to that of any Z diode rating would be advisable (not to 'burn through' any diodes at the very first 'spark' i.e. conduction).

Let me notice that other than Z diodes, the so called Transil or / and TVS diodes could be used as "spark gaps" too, they are designed to withstand much higher surge currents than Z diodes when they break down at the chosen voltage level.

Gyula