Toroidal Motor

[Low-Q]

jadaro2600 ...WRONG. No matter how you orient the wire no matter how creative you are in doing that the force will always and always point in the same direction. You don't even have to apply the ampere force to show this. The Biot-Savart/Lorentz law shows this but what they don't show is the correct reaction force but that doesn't matter now. Take a paper replace the magnet by a a circular circuit and draw out the result, then try to approach it from its perimeter and find out what the force will always be. If you want to stick to something wrong at least use it the right way.

Here's another thing you should think about jadaro2600. If you attach this outside wire to the magnet according to you the whole thing will still rotate since it's the current of the coating that drags everything with it according to you. Well this is wrong, if you attach it to the magnet nothing will happen. But I'm sure you will have a nice excuse for this as well.

I must say you have a quite big mouth @broli . Watch out, you might be wrong

[broli]

I agree with. I'm a bit too overconfident. It all comes down to the shielding, if it works everything works period.

[jadaro2600]

jadaro2600 ...WRONG. No matter how you orient the wire no matter how creative you are in doing that the force will always and always point in the same direction. You don't even have to apply the ampere force to show this. The Biot-Savart/Lorentz law shows this but what they don't show is the correct reaction force but that doesn't matter now. Take a paper replace the magnet by a a circular circuit and draw out the result, then try to approach it from its perimeter and find out what the force will always be. If you want to stick to something wrong at least use it the right way.

Here's another thing you should think about jadaro2600. If you attach this outside wire to the magnet according to you the whole thing will still rotate since it's the current of the coating that drags everything with it according to you. Well this is wrong, if you attach it to the magnet nothing will happen. But I'm sure you will have a nice excuse for this as well.

Since everyone is being so polite,

..it doesn't matter where the wire is, as long as there is a radial current, the rotor will rotate.  It sounds like we agree on this then.

Biot and Savart account just fine, as you point out - ...but that force is not acting with regard to the wire.  You have this hair brain idea that magnet is somehow pushing off the wire to rotate.  If this is the case, then if you move the wire, the vectors of force will change!

You've established a MOOT point ..very scientist of you to do so to, to argue a moot point.. there's infinite recursion in your idea, and I admire that, but it's crap And I'de like you to clearly state the dynamics of a homopolar motor / generator as you see it in your mind's eye.

What's the force reacting to?

Some of you have said that it can't be the conducting coating of the magnet, and claim that it's the wire.  You should look up the pancake motor.

I beg to differ, it can only be effected so much by the wire - and by so much, I mean the current flowing through it to get to the radial path - Where do you differ from me, WHERE?

I fail to see where you differ from me in our explanations and HOW?  You have yet to post this.

I stand by my reasoning, the wire is not the reference frame, only the supply of current and nothing more.  The reference frame of the entire machine is the stationary field of the earth... we could get into a relativity argument now.  Go right ahead, but there is one fact only with regard to this, there is relative rotation - this is the only logic supporting your claim.  The axis is fixed to the earth, not the wire.

Current is moving across the atoms radially in a magnetic field, since the disk if freely spinning, the atoms move out of the way, being replaced with yet another path of atoms, etc, this causes the rotation.

You're eventually just going to blurt out that ..well, the wire carrys the current, thus the wire causes the rotation... which is a very troglodyte thing to say, so I'll preempt you on it.  Haha, very bright then... it couldn't rotate without a current, is that what you've been trying to say this whole time..?

Are YOU the one's that's being paid to post crap to forums?

*edit:  Just because we share, as a viewer, our reference from with the stationary, wire, doesn't mean that the wire is the reference frame - it means we share reference frame with the wire.  Since we share a reference frame, then we effect the rotation just as much as the path of the wire - we mush therefore be the reference fram asa well.

THat reference frame is the earth, our stationary nature, and the stationary nature of the radial path with regard to us.  Does this not support your claim?

I think we are speaking the same language here, just not agreeing on what the reference frame is..  And I NEVER claimed that attaching the entire thing would cause it to spin, the radial path has to be stationary.

[jadaro2600]

..and before I completely disenfranchise myself from this thread,

Do we all agree that a standard homopolar motor is wasteful?

I've seen the research, and you don't get out nearly as much as what you put in because of the dynamics.  It takes a great deal more current to maintain the spin that it produces spinning at the same speed.

[broli]

Make sure the door doesn't hit you on the way out.