Toroidal Motor

[Low-Q]

Low-q I illustrated an experiment that you should definitely try with those magnet pieces you have. I'm starting to believe that the reaction force on the magnets is weaker than the action force on the wires. This means there is a net unidirectional force. You should perform this experiment on some kitchen scale. Use some scotch tape to stick the windings to the magnets. Also inverse the setup to look for weight gain. Try to squeeze as much windings as you can against the magnet. Maybe you will see lift off  .

Edit: Hmm why make it hard if it can be easy. You could just forget about the shielding and make it circular. This is pretty much how a speaker coil works Or what you expect to happen if the coil was a permanent magnet. This should easily show or prove whether newton's third law is obeyed nicely or not. If the rod is able to drag the magnet with it on a homopolar setup like there are 1000's on youtube then why can't these wire drag the magnet with them as well  .

Edit2: I did an experiment with the last setup. I used an analog kitchen scale which is accurate to +-20g. There is no visual scale deflection if a coil is used with about 30 windings and 1.7 A. Either the third law holds or the difference between the action and reaction force cannot be measured with this kind of accuracy. A +-0.1g digital scale should give more conclusive results.

Hi,

You make nice drawings, that's for sure. However, your idea about magnets lifting off, may not happen, but funny though . Well, the loudspeaker works almost like the last drawing, except the flux is crossing the coil in only one direction - flux never goes back via the same coil at any possible position of the coil.

I cannot replace that coil with a solid permanentmagnet very easily as the flux from the coil have the ability to take a loop going through thin air and not via a solid material like iron or ferrite as in a permanent magnet. So it isn't easy, probably impossible, to make a good air-coil equivalent with permanentmagnets.

I did the experiment like the first example you have with the coil in that direction (Not fixed to the magnet though). The coil wanted to go unidirectional with and without the shield - within a given distance from the magnets. Too far away it was forced in the oposite direction - ofcourse as the magnetic flux is at some poit returning to its "host", where the flux is starting to go in the opposite direction relative to the coil.

If I fix the coil to the magnet - well I believe the force on the coil is related to the magnetic fluxdensity in the magnets and the current flowing through the (hot) coil. Force equals counterforce, but of course I can try. So then I can finally explain why we see hovering UFOs some times

I'll give it a shot, and reply here shortly.

Vidar

[broli]

Mean while I did numerous other experiments that indicate there's always a reaction force. I think I'm getting the hang of this quite good. Even with ferrite magnets I'm getting good results I can't wait for the neo magnets. The reason why I mentioned the asymmetrical reaction force is because every youtube homopolar motor video shows this fact and especially Jorge Guala-Valverde's experiment (at 3:14) shows this nicely. That is the fact that the conductor can drag the magnet with it. According to action-reaction this is not possible. The magnet should push equally hard in the other direction thus resulting in 0 motion yet a simple battery and neo magnet shows otherwise  .

[jadaro2600]

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[broli]

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I don't know what you are correcting. The purple vectors are force vectors not field lines.

[khabe]

I dont think so, Low-Q,
In loudspeakers magnet flux has always just one direction through coil,
Broli´s scheme has the same ... theres no flux returner, but OK - in this case two oposite magnets are pressing the flux widely outer direction (radially),
In principle theres nothing new - it is voice coil motor as well as it is like part of tubular linear motor without outer iron,
One thing I wonder in all OU threads - you always ignore in magnetics back irons anf flux returners
Added draw is part of Tubular Linear Motor where coils are A,a,A,a ...
There I removed Spacers, Liners, Flux returner and coils of phase b and c (was 3-phase),
When Spacers replaced to radial magnets - then its Halbach array...
I tried as Halbach too - was not good - I did write about somewhere in forums,
Radial magnets I made from arc segments , when last segment placed - then some kind of anomaly happend - all ring lost most of properties ... and I waived.
I know that ten years ago it was "even theoretically impossible" to make radial neodymium magnets - but also I know that some companies can do it and these magnets (one piece ring) exist,
cheers,
khabe