The Problem with Meyer

[Farrah Day]

Interesting post Loner

Though I find Meyer’s interpretation of his WFC workings as quite ludicrous and laughable, I’m nevertheless intrigued by it all, and still get genuinely quite excited by the science and technological possibilities surrounding this subject as a whole.

It's interesting that you say that the high voltage is not across the plates, as Meyer himself seemed to think it was - at least that's how he explained pulling off all the outer electrons!  But then I'm not big on that interpretation of things anyway!

It has been suggested that the inductor set-up in the Puharich/Meyer circuit is acting as a type of ‘free’ energy collector.  Some people believe that the cct can be compared favourably to research of Bedini, Beardon, Newman and others and their respective ‘free’ energy research and machines - effectively acting as a ‘time energy pump’.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tepprinc.htm

If so - and I’m not closing my mind to this possibility â€" then this may well be a factor in increasing overall system efficiency. However, if ‘free’ energy was indeed found to be an essential part of Meyer’s process, this would not in itself explain the electrochemistry involved.

If we forget about Meyer’s claims of all the outer electrons being torn from molecules and atoms, and assume that Meyer’s process, just like standard everyday electrolysis, relies on the ionisation of water, then Faraday’s Law will apply.  And, for the resulting hydroxyl and hydrogen ions to form into atoms and be evolved as a gas, they must gain or lose their charges at the electrodes. 

However, as it is effectively a closed loop, no electrons are ever actually lost in the process, so perhaps it is more to do with the efficiency at which the electrons are being moved around the cct. Perhaps, bringing us again to the possible ‘free’ energy element in all of this.   

There are of course further possibilities. For example the science behind Avramenko's plug, whereby additional electrons are thought to be acquired from the surroundings!

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm

http://jnaudin.free.fr/avramenko/avramenk.htm

However, my problem then would be that the circuit as a whole would have a surplus of electrons, so effectively be unbalanced…  unless only Hydrogen was evolving from the WFC.

Now if you checked out the JLN Labs link I posted last time, you will have seen for yourself that Naudin has insulated one electrode.  This means that he has a genuine capacitor, even if it is the actual insulation on the electrode that is the major dielectric.

Now Naudin clearly reports that he is getting gas produced with this set up, which begs the question… how?

I emailed Naudin about a year ago, but he never did the courtesy of replying.  My question… ? 

I simply asked him, how he thought the gas was being produced when an insulated electrode would prevent any ions from dropping or collecting charges to become atoms... quite a valid question I thought.

The question still stands!

[jadaro2600]

@Loner, I think you're carrying this thread.

@ALL,

The Meyer devices have tubes within tubes ...

This is interesting, yet contrary, if current were to flow in opposite directions in these tubes, then a current would then flow inside ( between ) the two tubes in a circular fashion.  When pulsing DC through these tubes - which is all I can hope to think he did, then he's just agitating the current flowing between the tubes.  Nothing special there except how he manages to get current to flow evenly - perhaps by pulsing alone or via high voltage.  What he essentially has is a broken, perpendicularized, electric discharge lamp which has been flooded with water.

Barring any philosophy on this post, ...he's 'cracking' water using elongated tubes where current is made to flow, at least, inductively, in the water between the tubes.

This is no surprise, what's remarkable, is the tendency for it work.  And if it's not working, and if that's what the problem is, then the electrodes need to be reconfigured - the frequency is just going to be a variable fixed to the physiology of the individual setups.  All systems have a resonance.

If I were going to try this - and it seems like a waste of time, I would try to make sure that source currents were flowing in opposite directions in the tubes.  For instance, negative comes from the top and positive comes from bottom, or something to that effect. You will, of course want hydrogen to form on the electrode with the most surface area.  Once any amount of electrolysis starts to occur, then the solutions become differentially alkaline and acidic... just depends on concentration, and then electrolysis becomes easier...resonance occurs here as well at any other natural 'cracking' frequency ( which has been the subject of much debate here and there ) ..these last few remarks being metaphor.  One also has to consider capacitance in these tubes while they're running - this winds up being an equation of many variables - this is why I state the the input frequency is dependent on many factors, and is thus relative to the individual system.

A similar thing happens at a very high speed in a florescent tube - disregarding PH (something reserved for liquids, etc ), ..the tendency is for increasing domino effects to rapture and create the desired effects.

[Farrah Day]

Firstly, I've got to say Loner, it's a real pleasure reading your posts and indeed conversing with you. Not only do you raise the level of discussion and provide insightful posts, you also bring an element of sanity - and hope - to this forum.

I'm always open to people thinking 'outside of the box' so as to speak... it's just that some people seem to have unrealistically large boxes!

Now, was this "Cold Electricity", an unusual RF effect, RE, Positron flow, Quantum entanglement, or something else?  I can't answer any of that.  What I can say for sure is that taking this one wire and putting it into a test tube of water produces HHO gas.  How?  Again, I cannot answer that, but I was able to re-create this on my bench with about 15 minutes of work.

I've never heard of this before, but find it extremely intriguing... fascinating! This is just begging to be experimented with further!

This really does tend to open up whole new realms of possibility. Can you confirm that it was hydroxy and not just H2 though... or are you simply assuming this to be the case?

My immediate thoughts would be H2 alone would make more sense if the wire is providing a surplus of electrons. That said, I've a feeling that I could be at the bottom of a steep learning curve here.

I tend to use the term electrochemistry, because to produce hydrogen and oxygen from water, there must at some point be an exchange of charges.

So we have standard everyday electrolysis dissociating water via two electrodes, we have Naudin and yourself apparently doing this with a single electrode, and we have Kanzius doing it without any electrodes at all! Looks like it really is time to re-write a few science books!

Just a further thought, and something that is never considered in relation to standard electrolysis, is the magnetic field produced by the ionic current flow itself.

In a standard electrolyser, unlike the one-way electron flow in a wire, we have ions travelling in both directions. The opposing magnetic fields that they themselves induce must surely go someway to explaining the impedance of such a cell.  Furthermore, if we then dc pulse the cell, there must also surely be a momentary high voltage spike (back emf?) between pulses.

To my mind, this again raises even more questions.

Even from just what we have said in the last few posts, it’s clear that this science is far from straight-forward and indeed still poses many questions. I guess accepting the mystery is the first step to unravelling the puzzle.

[alan]

Read this if you haven't done so already.
http://67.76.235.52/cre.asp

In many stiffler video's he shows the wireless illumination of fluorescent tubes, so the energy level of the atoms inside the tubes are being raised and I guess also ionized, without charge exchange, only fields are being used. Maybe  it correlates with Meyers work: voltage field to ionize and raise the energy level of the water molecules, but how can this contribute to breaking the covalent bonds?
Not to forget the materials in the tube and water are different, maybe free electrons in the gas are being pushed back and forth, creating (displacement) currents.

[Farrah Day]

Good link Alan.

Some very interesting stuff there.