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[EMdevices]

....except when the transformers get SLIGHTLY out of phase....

How can transformers get out of phase when they are on the same core and the coupling is close to 1, think about that!

The answer,  ....<drum roll please>....  ferroacoustic vibrations set in !!

That's when the magnetic coupling is no longer dictated by coils only, but also by the magnetostriction induced ferroacoustic vibrations.

Of course, geometry plays a part and if the coils are exactly one on top of each other, with the core in the center, then this out of phase can't happen.

Note:  Hooking a capacitor to the secondary transformer is not makeing the transformer be out of phase with the input,  it's realy the internal vibrations of the transformer that do the trick.   For the non electrical types, real tranformers have an equivalent circuit that inclues a lot more then two coils linked magneticaly, and it's these extra components, IF MODELED CORECTLY, that play a part in these type of resonant phase shifts.

EM

[Bruce_TPU]

Hi EM,

Nice post.  But there are TWO transformers.  SM's words:

"Now the high voltage power goes through the cathode and travels through the coils of the 5 volt transformer along with the 5 volt AC.
If the plate voltage is not rectified then it is AC with a potential 60 Hz frequency.
That combines with the 5 volt 60 Hz in the coil of the htr transformer and generally amounts to nothing. In fact the power of the 5 volt transformer amounts to nothing.
It is an insignificant power supply except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another.
Then you can measure all kinds of things going on.
You can generate all kinds of hash and multiple frequencies, and I do mean all kinds.
What I measured during this process was very interesting.
All these frequencies occasionally met at the same time with a much larger kick at the output.

Their is vibration, noise like that of a resonant transformer etc.  But IMHO, we are searching for the "creation" of harmonics of a "special" frequency.  Every combining to the fundamental or harmonic of this "magnetically enhanced" (my word!! LOL) frequency will give a "magnetic" kick to the dc bias. 

P.S.  Something else I just saw...I have highlighted above!  He put High Voltage through a 5 volt transformer, a big transformer no, no! 

Remember this vid?

Any idea how he did it, make the "kick" coil?     Now, picture the "creation" of hundreds of thousands of these "kicks" per second.  The only thing is, that OUR frequency is in the Khz. 


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5540717206741162529&ei=CoHyScScJKLcqAOJ9enhBw&q=Marco%27s+dancing+magnets&hl=en

[BEP]

Hi EM,

Nice post.  But there are TWO transformers.  SM's words:

"Now the high voltage power goes through the cathode and travels through the coils of the 5 volt transformer along with the 5 volt AC.
If the plate voltage is not rectified then it is AC with a potential 60 Hz frequency.
That combines with the 5 volt 60 Hz in the coil of the htr transformer and generally amounts to nothing. In fact the power of the 5 volt transformer amounts to nothing.
It is an insignificant power supply except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another.
Then you can measure all kinds of things going on.
You can generate all kinds of hash and multiple frequencies, and I do mean all kinds.
What I measured during this process was very interesting.
All these frequencies occasionally met at the same time with a much larger kick at the output.

P.S.  Something else I just saw...I have highlighted above!  He put High Voltage through a 5 volt transformer, a big transformer no, no! 

He does say two but normally the heater an plate windings were on one core. It was also common practice to run plate current through the filament winding of the transformer with rectifiers that had no separate cathode, like the 5U4 series.

Possible situation: The rectifier becomes gassy and starts to conduct both ways..... the filament and plate windings (on the same core) are positioned on the core in such a relationship that the induction is out of phase between the heater and plate windings.

It is common practice, now, to place all separate windings on the same portion of the core - one surrounding the other (except polyphase). In others, phase relationships between separate windings could be slightly different because separate windings would be stacked on the same core leg.

[EMdevices]

I'm thinking the two transformers are on the same core, Bruce, but good point, it could be he meant two separate ones.  On the diagrams that marco posted, of the old GE CRTs, they seem to be powered off of the same core.

I think a very significant piece of info is also the fact that tubes exibit MICROPHONICS.  These vibrations can be exited by noisy mains supply....hint....hint...

I'm exploring this aspect.  I'm gona order some ceramic metalic high power tubes soon....why? ....you'll have to wait.....

EM

[Mannix]

OR.......
separate cores and separate sources with different frequencies different than mains . 5ar4 or 5u4 apparently

Who has actually done this?

I suggest we all just talk about this until we can all decide not to do anything because there is no precedent...except for the TPU
And what the inventor said happened.