MylowHJ Replication - Discussion

[BEP]

Mylow's described attempt at using two stators is a classic mistake.

Having three stators spaced 120 deg. apart is not a solution unless the total rotor groups is an even number AND the asymmetrical rotor layout doesn't cause the same locking point - as if the total rotor groups were an odd number.

No magic there, just basic motor layout. The best thing to do is have one fixed stator and one adjustable in radial position. Moving it would be like twisting a car distributor to adjust timing.

Only two stators are need to prove the point. It may fire like a Harley V-Twin but nobody cares.

[wattsup]

@all (sorry for long post)

I saw Mylows last Utube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3bReWmWwDE&feature=channel_page

And................ naturally our first instinct is to ask why in tarnation is he worried about simple stickies when he had a turning wheel. Here's the way I see it, and it is a damn shame.

Well first of all his present rotors are shot, and, he can't just sit still and wait for his next rotors and not do anything. So for the "first time" (now I don't know if it's the first time but if I judge from his astonishment at explaining a simple stickie, one would then ask, geez is this the first time he's used straight magnets), I think he has tried straight magnets. lol

@Sterlinga if you can find out if in his last video, was this the first time he ever used straight magnets or is the object of the video to give a Discovering Stickies 101 Course and he's been using them for years. Both ways is OK with me because I now know why his wheel worked and that is OK with me.

@Sterlinga also, once he noticed his wheel turning on it's own, how long after did he communicate with you. This is a very important question as it will give us more precise idea on the rotor/stator durability. We need some type of Mylow discovery time line.

If you build a unit, I don't care what type of pull, if you put a small motor on the wheel to turn it just a tad 1-2 volts, maybe 3. In time if the stator slowly loses its strength and the rotors lose their strength, eventually you should get to what I would call the Mylow Level of Magnetic Depletion (MLMD), (ya, I know it sounds crazy), meaning the magnets will lose just enough from both sides to eventually be able to turn on its own, because now for the first time, the wheel mass with mild momentum is stronger then the stickies. In Mylows videos, using the same components used by current builders, there is just enough to start the turn, get out of the sticky, enter a new segment and continue to build up momentum in the wheel and from there it is a growing process to it's maximum RPM.

Either that or we have to find a way to deplete rotor magnets, or order rotors that are already depleted, meaning they once had a pull and now have I would say 20% left. lol

Now if Mylow was putzing around with this wheel for years, this would mean that at the beginning when the magnets had stronger fields, his wheel did not work in this same configuration, just like ours. So he must have tried and tried and tried and tried again many variations. But while he tried, his magnets started losing strength until just recently when the wheel turned on it's own and today when they are just dead.

But again, Mylows last video is of such an elementary nature that I am more inclined to think that Mylow was not doing this for very long, and that his rotors and stator were already very weak and his results of wheel rotation where rather quick to show itself, and that now that his rotors are dead and he is trying other magnet types due to having some time on his hands, it is only now that he is really discovering the sticky spot. Sounds repetitive.

So I think this whole Mylow affair is based on dying rotors and stator showing this rotation effect in the hands of someone that did not have enough experience to realize what is happening and who is now stuck in a twilight zone between authenticity and fakery postulations. Yes it would seem like fake if you do not understand what is really going on. But if Mylow had done a standardized but crude pull test on his rotor and stator from day one, he would have been able to realize and roughly quantify the gradual drop in magnetism.

Why are the current builds not working. The only real variable is the relationship between rotor strength and stator/rotor positioning.

We can use a stronger stator and put it further away but then we lose the pinpointed or directed two rotor coverage and go to higher rotor coverages as we increase the length. Mylows last working video shows this where his nearly dead rotors were turning with a newly received stator that was placed further away then many here would have tried. If the new stator is as close as his original, the stators new nature and strength will over power the rotors near dead state. If you then just back the stator away from rotors a few inches, the stator is still too strong and now the active field size grows even more to cover more rotors while the stator field gets somewhat weaker on the rotors, and if you back the stator further out, you get to a point where the stator field curvature is at its edge and is probably just touching 2 or 3 rotors with the right strength to again produce a quasi mutual neutral zone where between these two neutralizing forces, again the wheel momentum can take advantage of the turning momentum.

So based on all this, I think the choice of stator and rotor has to be a simple math equation. If the new rotors are 1 lb pull, and the stator covers two rotors, then the stator should be 2 lb. pull if both the rotor and stator should have the same strength and thus provide the most neutral field possible where the wheel momentum can provide the excess gain. If you have a 12 lb stator, use 6 lb rotors. If you want the stator to be three rotors wide, then use 4 lb rotors. And so on.

But then in the equation the wheel diameter and mass will have to be taken into consideration. I would guess a 17" to 20" wheel should use 1-2 lb rotors and 2-4 lb stators, but as soon as you start using stronger rotors and stators, the wheel diameter and mass must increase accordingly since the potential delevopped neutral strength or mass interchange of mutual magnetic fluxes will provide differences in a scale from 0-1 and the differences would be in the .1 scale. meaning you will require more wheel mass to tear away from a neutral state produced by stronger magnet rotor and stators, even thought they are still neutral, there is more neutral mass flux to overcome with only the wheel momentum.

On my wheel with neos, they are 12 lb pull each, so imagine the pull strength of the stator would have to be 24, 36 or 48 lb pull depending on how many rotors the stator will cover. imagine the inter magnet stress involved if properly balance should make the wheel turn at a 1000 rpm easy. Hmmmmm how to find stronger pull in a compact size. This becomes the next dilemma.

I'll stop now. But I guess the main reason for this post is to say, that I would hope @sterlina will be able to gets some time line answers and if he needs a list of pertinent questions, just ask and I will prepare them during the weekend. I would hate to see Mylow be chastised because of our collective ignorance to the real facts, something that history has shown to be so true. I can only say that Mylow did the right thing is communicating with @sterlinga when he did. Any later and it was too late, effect is gone and we would have lost this opportunity to witness and learn more. So Mylow, I guess you are now member of the Standard Sticky Club. So let's make some more discoveries.

[ramset]

This man doesn't like the sticky club either

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChGB3delzoA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fmy_videos_edit2&feature=player_embedded

Chet

[Grimer]

@all (sorry for long post)

I saw Mylows last Utube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3bReWmWwDE&feature=channel_page

And................ naturally our first instinct is to ask why in tarnation is he worried about simple stickies when he had a turning wheel. Here's the way I see it, and it is a damn shame.

Well first of all his present rotors are shot, and, he can't just sit still and wait for his next rotors and not do anything. So for the "first time" (now I don't know if it's the first time but if I judge from his astonishment at explaining a simple stickie, one would then ask, geez is this the first time he's used straight magnets), I think he has tried straight magnets. lol

@Sterlinga if you can find out if in his last video, was this the first time he ever used straight magnets or is the object of the video to give a Discovering Stickies 101 Course and he's been using them for years. Both ways is OK with me because I now know why his wheel worked and that is OK with me.

@Sterlinga also, once he noticed his wheel turning on it's own, how long after did he communicate with you. This is a very important question as it will give us more precise idea on the rotor/stator durability. We need some type of Mylow discovery time line.

If you build a unit, I don't care what type of pull, if you put a small motor on the wheel to turn it just a tad 1-2 volts, maybe 3. In time if the stator slowly loses its strength and the rotors lose their strength, eventually you should get to what I would call the Mylow Level of Magnetic Depletion (MLMD), (ya, I know it sounds crazy), meaning the magnets will lose just enough from both sides to eventually be able to turn on its own, because now for the first time, the wheel mass with mild momentum is stronger then the stickies. In Mylows videos, using the same components used by current builders, there is just enough to start the turn, get out of the sticky, enter a new segment and continue to build up momentum in the wheel and from there it is a growing process to it's maximum RPM.

Either that or we have to find a way to deplete rotor magnets, or order rotors that are already depleted, meaning they once had a pull and now have I would say 20% left. lol

Now if Mylow was putzing around with this wheel for years, this would mean that at the beginning when the magnets had stronger fields, his wheel did not work in this same configuration, just like ours. So he must have tried and tried and tried and tried again many variations. But while he tried, his magnets started losing strength until just recently when the wheel turned on it's own and today when they are just dead.

But again, Mylows last video is of such an elementary nature that I am more inclined to think that Mylow was not doing this for very long, and that his rotors and stator were already very weak and his results of wheel rotation where rather quick to show itself, and that now that his rotors are dead and he is trying other magnet types due to having some time on his hands, it is only now that he is really discovering the sticky spot. Sounds repetitive.

So I think this whole Mylow affair is based on dying rotors and stator showing this rotation effect in the hands of someone that did not have enough experience to realize what is happening and who is now stuck in a twilight zone between authenticity and fakery postulations. Yes it would seem like fake if you do not understand what is really going on. But if Mylow had done a standardized but crude pull test on his rotor and stator from day one, he would have been able to realize and roughly quantify the gradual drop in magnetism.

Why are the current builds not working. The only real variable is the relationship between rotor strength and stator/rotor positioning.

We can use a stronger stator and put it further away but then we lose the pinpointed or directed two rotor coverage and go to higher rotor coverages as we increase the length. Mylows last working video shows this where his nearly dead rotors were turning with a newly received stator that was placed further away then many here would have tried. If the new stator is as close as his original, the stators new nature and strength will over power the rotors near dead state. If you then just back the stator away from rotors a few inches, the stator is still too strong and now the active field size grows even more to cover more rotors while the stator field gets somewhat weaker on the rotors, and if you back the stator further out, you get to a point where the stator field curvature is at its edge and is probably just touching 2 or 3 rotors with the right strength to again produce a quasi mutual neutral zone where between these two neutralizing forces, again the wheel momentum can take advantage of the turning momentum.

So based on all this, I think the choice of stator and rotor has to be a simple math equation. If the new rotors are 1 lb pull, and the stator covers two rotors, then the stator should be 2 lb. pull if both the rotor and stator should have the same strength and thus provide the most neutral field possible where the wheel momentum can provide the excess gain. If you have a 12 lb stator, use 6 lb rotors. If you want the stator to be three rotors wide, then use 4 lb rotors. And so on.

But then in the equation the wheel diameter and mass will have to be taken into consideration. I would guess a 17" to 20" wheel should use 1-2 lb rotors and 2-4 lb stators, but as soon as you start using stronger rotors and stators, the wheel diameter and mass must increase accordingly since the potential delevopped neutral strength or mass interchange of mutual magnetic fluxes will provide differences in a scale from 0-1 and the differences would be in the .1 scale. meaning you will require more wheel mass to tear away from a neutral state produced by stronger magnet rotor and stators, even thought they are still neutral, there is more neutral mass flux to overcome with only the wheel momentum.

On my wheel with neos, they are 12 lb pull each, so imagine the pull strength of the stator would have to be 24, 36 or 48 lb pull depending on how many rotors the stator will cover. imagine the inter magnet stress involved if properly balance should make the wheel turn at a 1000 rpm easy. Hmmmmm how to find stronger pull in a compact size. This becomes the next dilemma.

I'll stop now. But I guess the main reason for this post is to say, that I would hope @sterlina will be able to gets some time line answers and if he needs a list of pertinent questions, just ask and I will prepare them during the weekend. I would hate to see Mylow be chastised because of our collective ignorance to the real facts, something that history has shown to be so true. I can only say that Mylow did the right thing is communicating with @sterlinga when he did. Any later and it was too late, effect is gone and we would have lost this opportunity to witness and learn more. So Mylow, I guess you are now member of the Standard Sticky Club. So let's make some more discoveries.

A very intelligent post in my opinion. Congratulations.

I particularly liked the clever idea of driving the wheel with a motor until the magnets are virtually depleted. As I pointed out in the following post.....

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7039.msg166216#msg166216

.......one wants to cut out all but the first order interactions. Weakening the magnets does this, as of course does having a lot of separate groups, islands which cannot communicate with each other.

The final paragraph of my post was,

This would seem to be a case where small is beautiful. Size matters but in the inverse. The natural temptation to use more powerful magnets should be resisted. The discs should be as large as possible, the magnets as small and weak as possible consistent with the motor still working, obviously. One can then gradually increase each of the variables in turn until one generates a negative interaction and the motor stops working. In this way one will map out an operating envelope for the motor and determine which combination of variables gives most power, most speed, or whatever.

Your idea of working down is better than mine of working up. Its easier to weaken magnets progressively than to strengthen them progressively.

[jester]

Also see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6bE9TzetSA&feature=channel_page

@ Michelinho
Thanks interesting stuff

@ Lakes

That's pretty cool and I have just notice your other post in the other thread which I miss.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7039.msg170265#msg170265

on shielded magnets Lakes has posted 2 videos

Lakes posted (part 1) on other the thread another interesting one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofO1S1937w&feature=channel_page

I am going to post part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsJsFK0-cqQ

If your build allows it (and you have a full circle up) could some do a simple test for me. Drop some square cake tins upside down (if you have some of different sizes) over the top of each other in the centre of the circle and tell me if it change the speed through any of your sets.