Salt Water Fuel From Radio Waves

[TheNOP]

Microwave ovens  work by rotating water molecules back and forth really fast which generate heat.   The process is called dielectric heating.    In dielectric heating all the energy goes towards heat generation... In photoionization, ideally no energy is lost in heat, and all the photon's energy is used to eject the H-O-H binding electrons, which make hydroxy gas.

ionization is not the only way to get hydrogen and ionization alone does not init hydrogen either.

remark i am not a chemist, so i might be wrong.

what make you think "photoionization" is the only possible way in this case ?

[newbie123]

Photonionization is the only known way to disassociate water with RF.    So, I'll pretty be skeptical till people start replicating this experiment (with full disclosure) ..  Which as far as I can tell hasn't happened yet.

[mscoffman]

It turns out this experiment has been duplicated;

Try entering "Rustum Roy salt water electrolysis"
into Google. The result were exactly as I have stated.

Liquid electrolytic rectifiers where some of the first
diodes used in electronics.


---

I think that we here should have a better definition of
"burning" then the general public. For example it ought to
mean oxidation, rather then simple disassociation. This is
actually a bi-directional chemical reaction were both
directions nearly share the same space. So energy is going
in as RF and energy is coming out as heat and light.


:S:MarkSCoffman

[newbie123]

The most detailed  paper released is here: http://www.rustumroy.com/    ..  This is a replication, but it includes nothing of value, imo.  No information about their  RF beam generator or polarization method, etc.

[Farrah Day]

I've been saying for a good while now that this, if true, is really a break through. One scientist said that this could be the biggest discovery in science in the last 100 years - or words to that effect. I tend to agree.

Being one of the biggests skeptics around here, and after having researched it, I don't get the feeling that it is a hoax. On the contrary, everything about it seems geniune.

However, forget about OU.  The really interesting part is the electrochemistry taking place. This is where the mystery and intrigue lies... and it is not easily explained.

Anyone that says it is no big deal, just another form of electrolysis... adding energy to water to dissociate it into oxygen and hydrogen... blah, blah, blah, is talking absolute nonsense and clearly has no understanding of standard electrolysis.

This phenomenom is a big deal, though you can guarantee that money will already have exchanged hands somewhere and in the near future someone will be making money from this discovery. So, when someone does figure out exactly what's happening, don't expect the science behind it to be brought immediately to public attention.

Things to note:

1. The RF frequency is not necessarily the key, as this frequency is simply that designated for medical and experimental purposes - so other frequencies may work equally as well.

2. The phenomenom only exhibits itself when water is doped with sodium chloride, though I feel it is likely that any metallic salt will work. Just as in standard electrolysis, I should imagine that the better the salt as an electrolyte, the greater the effect (the better the electrolyte, the more the compound dissociates in water into ions, the more ions available). I would therefore expect sodium and potassium hydroxide to work and be more effective.


The solution would contain H2O and the ions Cl- and Na+. The ions would be influenced into motion by the RF, but what happens after is where the mystery lies.

All of the information available to date only hypotheses what is occurring, so should be taken with a pinch of salt (no pun intended). Much of what has been said or written - even by respected scientists - and rather ignorantly to my mind, compares the phenomenom to standard electrolysis and so is clearly misleading. I have seen no recent papers detailing the actual electrochemistry involved - I don't think there have been any yet, and certainly none that have been published. If anyone knows better, please speak up.

The biggest hurdle in understanding just what is happening, and why even theorising is made difficult, is the fact that, unlike standard electrolysis, there are no electrodes too act as an ion charge exchange medium. In other words, even if the RF is causing the water molecule to dissociate into H+ and OH-, there is nowhere for these ions to exchange charges to become atoms and evolve as gases.

Only if you truly understand the science behind standard everyday electrolysis will you see the difficulty in explaining this phenomenom, and indeed exactly why it is so interesting!!