What does a "kick" look like on an oscilloscope?

[Grumpy]

Spherics speaks again...

[turbo]

I suppose Compfield uses a flyback diode.
This shorts out the inductive kickback,but this does not mean it doesn't happen around the coil.

From the image we cannot estimate if there is more energy comming from the system then he puts in.
But we can compare the energy in vs the energy out.
If the energy in the first two pulses is compressed, the pulse get's smaller in time and the voltage rises.
From what i can see, the third spike on the screen, does not put out more then the two first combined.
This is just based upon a look at the scope shot, so in reality pherhaps,maybe there is more energy there, but it won't be much.

If this pulse happens every time, maybe it is possible to run it from a cap, and store the captured energy into another cap.
Then the answer is simple, if the second cap charges up more then the first cap.....

M.

[poynt99]

The "mysterious pulse" has been cracked. At least I believe it has.

With a very simple addition/modification to the basic switching circuit, this is the result. No this is not a real scope shot, this is a PSpice simulation. Doubtful this is overunity, but it IS a somewhat novel impulse generator. Might be patent material, but that's not going to happen.

The only disadvantage to this as an impulse generator is the presence of the first pulse in the output.

What we are seeing in the "real" scope shots is a lot of stray inductance. Yes, that's what is responsible for production of the pulse. However, at these extreme transition times, not only are wires not wires any more (they're more like inductors), but the inductors they become also behave in a peculiar way, which allows this effect to take place.

At any rate, sorry guys if this bursts your bubble a bit, but hey, if this effect can be replicated in a simulation, surely it's not ou.

This is "conventional" electricity, albeit not used in every day applications, that's for certain. For fun I'll be working on optimizing and modifying the circuit for "spec'd" impulses.

There may be more to follow, including scope shots from the modification of a real circuit.

.99

PS. Green is the "coil" voltage (20V supply), and red and blue are the MOSFET gate voltages (12V drive).

[BEP]

@.99

Congratulations! It seems you have found a piece of the puzzle. Perhaps this is the reason for the HV D.C. arc that may come from an unloaded TPU?

Any ideas on the fluctuating but much lower level DC that follows this spike?

The BEMF folks will love this spike. It is the wrong polarity, isn't flyback, only has half the energy of the trigger pulse train and is generally wider than a flyback pulse. What shall we call it? XEMF maybe?

[poynt99]

BEP,

I'm certain my model is not 100% complete.

I have seen a slight negative DC shift as well as slight oscillation you mentioned in other simulations.

I need to add a little more stray inductance (flying leads) and apply a 25MHz low pass to model the scope.

Thanks for the tips that helped lead to this discovery

More to come..

.99

PS. The spike created here may not in itself be ou, but what emanates from the pulsed coil may be. There are two small pulses creating one big pulse. The big pulse disappears if one of the two input pulses ceases.

Maybe this is the means to the ultimate end.