AC from Joule Thief Secondary/pick-up

[jeanna]

Hi everybody,

Today I made some experiments with a circuit from the secondary as talked about before, I will draw a pic in a few minutes, but first, I am amazed at how many wires simply do not need to be connected. I have found no use for them and having them not be connected to anything seems to not hurt the circuit.

So far, the best results have come from starting at the same generation point-- a secondary off the BJT, then run ONE wire through a toroid without a secondary and complete its circuit on the other wire through the load.

I could pick up a lot of voltage readings in many spots, but if I used any of them, the lights in the other areas went dim or out.

Finally I used another secondary off the BJT and used it to light another set of lights.

so far, again there are places where there is a reading on the scope telling of plenty of volts, but I don't seem to get any functional output.

I will draw this after some coffee... 

This is a very good opportunity to use a big boy or a MK2-16. I am thinking a big boy wired with a MK2 or 4 will be a good way to go for starters. I have an MK2 that has a lot of potential, maybe I will try that first.

Altrez has a big toroid with many secondaries. This is a good option too.

Right now I am in that difficult middle place where I can only use leds to show load function, but I must be careful because I am blowing them.

jeanna
here is a drawing:

[the_big_m_in_ok]

jeanna said:

Altrez has a big toroid with many secondaries. This is a good option too.

>>Hi jeanna,
Does it matter if the second tier is counter-wound as a bifilar?  Or with the turns going in the same direction?  Have you tried measuring the circuit either way? 
It crosses my mind double bifilars might work against each other, as another Member made note on another thread.

--Lee

[jeanna]

jeanna said:
>>Hi jeanna,
Does it matter if the second tier is counter-wound as a bifilar?

Probably it does change some things.
I was using a toroid of known values for the second tier, so it was wound the way we wind the JT primary which is only counterwound if you start the circuit at the center tap. (I think this is right. It is my understanding, anyway.)
 

Or with the turns going in the same direction?

My plan for today is to check out some of these details.

Have you tried measuring the circuit either way? 
It crosses my mind double bifilars might work against each other, as another Member made note on another thread.

--Lee

Yes, in fact while looking for good connections or even other connections yesterday I found the one that is using the second pickup from the BJT. I connected the centertap to the one secondary line. (L in Tesla's drawing) then when I connected one of the single leads from the bigilar it made the lights brighter and the other one made the lights dim. But, there are still many factors,
1-they are different directions.
2- one of these has 5 turns and the longer one has 8.
3- I found that if I touched the unconnected wire from the bifilar to the center tap the lights got brighter... And I am not even sure the center tap was connected to the line L at that point.
4- Then there is a possibility that a cap across these or one of these bifilar wires as in a tank ckt, would obviate these questions and maybe get the lights even brighter. That will need the right cap for the job.
I think I have just defined what today is looking at. hmm looks like fun.

My plan earlier was to see what will happen if I use just one single inductor in that place and look at how many winds and what size cap will help.

Are you free to do some of this too?

Do you have at least one free joule thief toroid wound with a secondary so you can try some of these things too?

I hope so.
Thank you for these good questions,

jeanna

[the_big_m_in_ok]

Hi jeanna,
Your ideas sound good.  I had the thought that several or many toroids could be stacked together for greater output amperage/voltage.  In series or parallel.  That might or might not get around Lenz' law(s).  You just need more toroids or bifilar iron/steel core coils.

Later re-edit:
In regard to my earlier post, have a look at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.200,  Reply #200,  the drawing.
Take another Radio Shack 273-1380 and solder the red lead of the original transformer to the white lead of the primary on the new one, with the resulting red lead continuing to the 100 ohm resistor.  The primaries amount to being wound bifilar with opposite-going turns.  Also called a "bucking coil".
The high voltage side can be either paralleled or wired in series to light 2ea. 4-Watt fluorescents in series.
My thought was whether or not CEMF/BEMF would increase or not?  Also, BTW, these could also be wired as a second, parallel tier to the JT, could they not?


jeanna said:

Are you free to do some of this too?

No, unfortunately.  I'm a disabled Vet on a small, fixed income in San Francisco.  I'm trying to get into low income housing before my money runs out.  You live in Washington State?  I lived in Seattle as a boy.  Similar weather to San Francisco.  My Dad worked for Boeing.  Hence the interest interest in both aerospace and electronic engineering.  He designed electronic instruments as a job function.

Do you have at least one free joule thief toroid wound with a secondary so you can try some of these things too?  I hope so.

I have parts (steel washers, insulated copper wire, bolts, etc.), I found on the streets of San Francisco  (read: free).  Money is      an issue.  It is for more and more people these days.  I can budget the money for some parts at Radio Shack.  I hope where I end up in housing is lenient enough to allow my personal experimentation.
I do have a lot of ideas; my Dad was a problem-solving engineer, after all.

Thank you for these good questions, ...

Sure, you bet.  Let's all learn something.  That should be one of the reasons this site is here.  To learn and also get the message out.

--Lee

[jeanna]

Hi everybody,

I ran some tests today and I will be compiling the info over the next hour or so, but I thought I would give a sneak peek  overview if I can.

I used the xtree for the primary joule thief circuit. I am getting dangerously (for leds) high voltages off the pickup so I used a resistor at the battery. In fact I used a 33 ohm resistor because it dimmed the lights enough they didn't hurt when my eyes got in the way.

Using the pickup from this plus the inductor from the berry, which is being run by the xtree's pickup and has no other connection to the joule thief. I have lit an array of 18 leds in series. The little pickup from the xtree is over to the side and it is also lighting one led.

Here is what is interesting about this today.

If you remember I discovered that every time I did something to change either the frequency or the voltage the other one changed too, but always in the opposite direction. So, if the frequency goes up the volts go down. (and reverse)

In Tesla's experiments, he used sparks which he pulsed at a rate that was independent of the rest of the circuit. I have been wondering what effect that would have on the circuit because he was forcing the frequency to stay at a certain rate, when it would normally change.

I saw some of this effect today.

I saw with some combinations, the frequency stayed the exact same as the voltage changed.

What changed was... the amount of light the leds would put out!

This was not just happening in one anomolous wire connection; it happened a bunch of times with different components.

So, I think this is cool.
No, I don't yet know what it means, but I like that something has shown up like this.

For now,

jeanna