Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie

[PaulLowrance]

Hi MileHigh,

Thanks for the outline. If they're concerned about the large caps taking away the effect, then maybe .99 can use the method that I suggested from the start, a simple op-amp that has a filter stage-- very simple, quick, and easy to build, maybe 5 minutes top. The op-amp has ultra high impedance and will not intefer with the battery or Ainslie circuit.

What do you think?


Paul

[PaulLowrance]

.99,

I appreciate the replies, but ... I don't know, there's some communication problems here. 

All I want to know is very simple,

1. We have the Ainslie circuit. You placed a shunt resistor just after the battery. With the scope, measure the DC current through the shunt resistor. That along with the DC voltage provides the total power produced by the battery (less shunt), which I'll call POS.

2. You have a thermistor on the load (you know,the wire wrapped inductive resistive thing). Measure the temperature above ambient.

3. Remove the load from the Ainslie circuit. Place the output of a variable power supply across the load. Increase the power supply until the load temperature is the same as the in step 2 above. We'll call this PIL.

4. Repeat step 3, above, except replace the load with the mosfet. We'll call this PIM.

5. Repeat step 4, above, except replace the mosfet with the shunt. We'll call this PIS.


That's all that should be required to verify if it's "over unity." Is that what you're doing?


Paul

[poynt99]

Okay, let me try to clarify that,

* Above you do not mention any scope power measurements for the load in the Ainslie circuit.

That is correct. I do not trust the scope measurements, even though the scope POS measurement agreed with the two meter measurement methods.

* The 2 watts is the total power produced by the power source (batteries?).

I prefer to call it power sourced or supplied by the "battery" or lab supply, but yes.

* You conclude (or assume) that the mosfet & shunt produces 2 watts - 1.3 watts = 0.7 watts.

I prefer to call it "dissipates" 0.7W, but yes. If the circuit is running OU, then it may be more than 0.7W. Until we can get a reliable PIM and PIS measurement, we don't know for certain. If the circuit is running UU, then yes this would be a sensible conclusion.

BTW, if you and the others are not concerned about the scope power measurements from the pulses, then what's the concern about the shunts inductance?  If you're using the scope to calculate the DC current across the shunt, then the shunt inductance is not going to cause any measurement errors.

I am greatly concerned about the integrity of the scope measurements. I thought my position on this was quite clear? The shunt inductance is a great concern, and may not be the only one, but it is a major one for sure. Now, give me half an hour, and I'll go measure the 0.25 Ohm shunt resistor inductance with my new meter.

.99

[MileHigh]

Hi Paul,

I have read a few of your references to op-amp circuits but I am not really sure exactly what you mean with respect to the low pass filter and all that.  The old cliche is a picture is worth a thousand words.  If you put up a simple sketch with a description then I am sure that .99 would have some comments and perhaps others including myself.

MileHigh

[PaulLowrance]

Hi MileHigh,

Thanks for the outline. If they're concerned about the large caps taking away the effect, then maybe .99 can use the method that I suggested from the start, a simple op-amp that has a filter stage-- very simple, quick, and easy to build, maybe 5 minutes top. The op-amp has ultra high impedance and will not intefer with the battery or Ainslie circuit.

What do you think?

BTW, I'll add to my above post that if they do not even like placing an ultra high impedance op-amp, then we can place a thermistor on this battery shunt to measure the temperature, and calculate the current from a control experiment. Although the battery shunt temperature might not go to high above ambient, so .99 might need a sensitive circuit to measure the temperature. Years ago I made a circuit that used two 402 SMD thermistors to measure temperature changes as low as 1/100000 of a Celsius. That should be good enough. 

Paul