Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie

[poynt99]

You can measure the voltage across a very low resistance resistor (battery shunt) with something such as a low pass filter with ultra high impedance that will not have any measurable influence on your circuit. The only thing connected directly to the battery shunt resistor would be two input pins from the FET op-amp. Extremely easy task. It will measure the DC voltage, and the current is V/R.

Paul

Please show how easy it is and post a circuit that perhaps Glen (or anyone) can build and use.

.99

[poynt99]

Ok Pauly - we use a low pass filter to average a value and then check that value with oscilloscope probes placed across the shunt at source.  That way everyone's scope should be able to read that averaged value?  But purists will complain that it's an averaged value precisely because it's 'fudged out' the details of the waveform.  But I'm happy with this protocol if it's the only one within the broader reach of our replicators. 

It seems there are two different measurement techniques and measurements being confused here.

Paul is referring to a battery shunt that feeds a buffer and lowpass filter. This is useful for obtaining the average sourced battery power when combined with a measured battery voltage.

Actually, Paul was not entirely clear as to what he was suggesting to be measured with his circuit, the battery voltage, the voltage across the battery shunt resistor, or both?

Rose, I am not sure what you are referring to. Instantaneous or average shunt voltage?

So there's your answer Poynty.  Go for it - if it's preferred.  But it's still a long test.  You'll need to see the rate at which the battery discharges against a control  -  I think?

Battery draw down tests is another category of testing period. One should not be combining this test with the power in vs. heat out tests done as per the article and paper.

Long testing is not required if done according to how I have suggested with the thermal testing, and even as per my test plan.

Note also that the question regarding the proposed thermal testing was to see if you were open to the idea. Now that you are, I would strongly suggest you and your team perform them this way (at least until, or if you can borrow or rent some HV differential and current probes to properly acquire the measurements with the scope). You can build Paul's circuit when he posts it, or you can use the simple filtered shunt as per my test plan in order to get the POS measurement. For Paul's method, it is critical to use a non-inductive shunt (otherwise there is the real possibility for skewed measurements once again). For mine it is not.

.99

[Rosemary Ainslie]

Hi Poynty

Either your LCR meter is faulty or the published inductance rating of your resistor is wrong.  Personally I don't trust either number.  And I consequently and certainly do not trust the number you came up with for your shunt.

Kindly explain what measurements a differential probe will acquire that cannot be acquired by TDS 3054C? 

My only requirment for differential probes was to evaluate the waveform across the load resistor.  Harvey showed me how to do this from the data dump to hand.  No further need for this.  So yes.  I have never discussed this off forum and I have never discussed it with you and I have never seen a reference to this in your posts.  My only reference to this was either in an email - or per Skype.  So.  Back to my question.  Are you telephathic?

Purists will not accept the averaged DC value as proposed by you and Paul.  Personally I don't mind that much as I'm not a purist.  But I'm entirely satisfied our academics are.  And my object is to satisfy their requirements and not yours.   With respect. 

I suggest that you and Pauly chat amongst yourselves and find out which tests you want to do - and why and how.  We know what's required here and it seems that you will never be able to wrap your mind around it.  And Poynty - while I'm really a great advocate of individuality - you really should try and lose those acronyms and get back to some classical reference on your measurements.  Way too much PIS and POS and TRAA la la's.  LOL. 

[poynt99]

Hi Poynty

Either your LCR meter is faulty or the published inductance rating of your resistor is wrong.  Personally I don't trust either number.  And I consequently and certainly do not trust the number you came up with for your shunt.

What leads you to believe that my LCR meter is faulty? There is no published inductance value for my shunt resistor that I am aware of. Please post what it is if you know it.

Kindly explain what measurements a differential probe will acquire that cannot be acquired by TDS 3054C?

There are a few. My assumption (based on your comments) was you knew this.

My only requirment for differential probes was to evaluate the waveform across the load resistor.  Harvey showed me how to do this from the data dump to hand.  No further need for this. 

I'm not following what you are saying here. Are you referring to a psuedo-differential measurement using two single-ended scope probes? If so, it's not even close to the same thing as a true differential probe.

So yes.  I have never discussed this off forum and I have never discussed it with you and I have never seen a reference to this in your posts.  My only reference to this was either in an email - or per Skype.  So.  Back to my question.  Are you telephathic?

I've mentioned differential probes in at least two (probably 3 or 4) of my posts starting many pages back. Subsequent to those, you and I also discussed them briefly in a Skype chat, but again that was long after I posted the suggestion. Harvey is the one that came up with the current probe idea, and although they are limited in bandwidth, I fully concur that this is the only way to properly acquire the instantaneous current measurement.

Purists will not accept the averaged DC value as proposed by you and Paul.  Personally I don't mind that much as I'm not a purist.  But I'm entirely satisfied our academics are.  And my object is to satisfy their requirements and not yours.   With respect. 

The average DC voltage across a battery shunt and the average voltage of the supply voltage is 100% valid when used in combination to obtain an average POS (power output from supply) measurement, and although I find it difficult to believe any academic would argue this, I'd gladly discuss it at length with any academic that would.

I suggest that you and Pauly chat amongst yourselves and find out which tests you want to do - and why and how.  We know what's required here and it seems that you will never be able to wrap your mind around it.  And Poynty - while I'm really a great advocate of individuality - you really should try and lose those acronyms and get back to some classical reference on your measurements.  Way too much PIS and POS and TRAA la la's.  LOL.

The suggested test methodology is mainly for your team's benefit, and also for anyone else wanting to get to the truth themselves about this circuit and the claims associated with it. I would suggest that this measurement is pointless for me to do, and my results would most likely not be accepted anyway.

.99

[PaulLowrance]

Please show how easy it is and post a circuit that perhaps Glen (or anyone) can build and use.

I posted the 1st & 2nd stage example circuits in this thread. So far nobody has shown interest in building it, but such circuits is almost electronics 101. As you know the filters can be as elaborate as one wants, but why spend lot of time designing something that's not necessary here, especially if nobody will use it.

Paul