GRAVITY mAGNET MOTOR DEVICE

[DMBoss]

I thought I covered this in the other forum.

The round runner magnet is attracted to the stator magnet from any point on a "FLAT SURFACE" of the inclined non magnetic chain. This statment is true.

If a one way clutch bearing was "NOT" on the chain sprockets axle "BOTH" the runner magnet AND the chain WILL travel up the incline towards the Stator magnet and then a jam would occur.  This statement is true.

But now we have a condition where the roller chain itself can not move up the track at all. Only down the track freely.  The runner magnet has its spokes deep inside the chain and that is a huge friction point.

However the top side of the runner (no friction) is free to turn/roll/ attract upwards towards the stator -- and it will try to do so.

But by doing that it pushes the roller chain under it downwards in the direction the chain is free to turn in. 

The weight of a heavy runner magnet and a roller chain that constantly slips downward under it are the "GO DOWNHILL" forces that come into play as soon as the runner trys to move uphill.

The end result should be the runner magnet spinning in one position.  I am close to finding that out   

The speed of the runner would depend on how close to the stator it was placed on the inclined plane.

Hi:

Some points:

"Level" means parallel to the earth's surface, where gravity will not allow a ball to roll either way if a planar surface onto which it is placed is "level".

A "Flat" or "straight" surface can be either level or not level.

And last, the proposed system appears sound, but a serious miscalculation has occurred:

You are relying on the inertia and friction of the entire dual chain, 4 sprocket "runner" system to be near or equal to the rolling inertia and friction of the magnet axle and free sprockets for this to work.

That is to say, the magnetic attraction from the stator magnet to this roller magnet pulls the free axle/sprockets up the chain incline with ever increasing force as the gap between magnets reduces.

So at say 6" the magnetic force might be 1 Newton, and at 3" it is 2 N, and 1.5" it is 4 N etc.  Magnetic "pull" force is the inverse square of the distance.  But gravity's pull down the incline is merely linear at this small delta distance from earth's center. (the weight of the roller assembly is always the same anywhere along the incline)

So two things occur:
1 the roller assembly, if the magnetic force is higher than the weight force pulling it down the incline, will make the roller assembly roll uphill - with ever increasing acceleration as this force rises non linearly.
2 the chain runner assembly has 2x more sprocket friction and inertia, and considerable chain inertia than does the roller assembly - so it cannot respond fast enough to move the roller assembly back down the chain by turning the sprockets and chain via gravity.

So you will get the roller assembly either not moving, or sliding down to the lowest point if the magnetic force is lower than the gravity force.  And if the magnetic force is above the gravity force the roller assembly will rapidly climb the incline and stick to the stator magnet before the chain slides from the increased height - due to higher friction and inertia of the chain assembly.

Actually even if you could balance the inertia and friction, this cannot work.  The weight of the roller assembly is always the same unless you've found a way to modulate gravity!  So as soon as the magnet's up pull exceeds gravity's down pull, the magnet force dominates and it will roll to move ever closer to the stator magnet.

Let's assume a 20 degree incline.  Let's assume at this incline angle your roller's force from gravity parallel to the incline is 204 grams (2 Newtons).  Let's assume your roller sprocket radius is 20 mm.

This means you have a down going torque on the roller assembly of 2N x 0.02m = 0.04 N-m.  This is the torque exterted by gravity on the roller at any point along your inclined chain, period!

Now at 100 mm from stator magnet to roller magnet let's say the attract force upwards is also 2 Newtons, on this same radius for an upwards torque of 0.04 N-m.  Here the two would balance.

Move the roller up a bit, and the force between magnets rises to 2.2 Newtons, and now you have an upwards torque of 0.044 N-m and still have a downwards torque of 0.04, for a net upwards torque of 0.004 N-m.  Once you upset this balance between upwards magnetic force and downwards gravity force, the magnetic upwards force dominates and the roller will roll uphill until it reaches some physical stop.

Gravity cannot pull this back down, as long as the magnetic force exerts more upwards torque than the downwards gravity torque!

it was a good effort, but you can rule this out without wasting money and time building it!

If you had a way to pull the roller upwards magnetically and then change {lessen} the magnetic pull - the chain assembly would go back down via gravity.  But as long as the magnetic force exceeds gravity's pull, it can only go up, closing the magnetic gap and making ever more magnetic up force!

DMBoss

[magnetman12003]

Hi,

That is the best explanation I have ever seen to date. It makes good sence.  I will have to rethink this again and maybe make some modifications.
I know from experimenting that the runner magnet will head strait up a flat inclined roller chain ladder to the stator magnet on the top of the incline. I did that many times.  You are right in the fact that the closer the runner gets to the stator the faster it rolls.

My whole idea was to "keep pulling the carpet out from under the runner magnets rolling feet" while it was heading up the incline.  The carpet being the roller chain track in this case.  Anyone have another idea??

Tom

[onthecuttingedge2005]

Here is an interesting conservation of energy device that can run for hours.

here is how it functions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvqHF74gc4g

[magnetman12003]

Have you tried to replicate this?  The text on U tube is in Russian.  Need to have a good idea what the measurements are and materials used. As well as sources to purchase the items.  In English.

[onthecuttingedge2005]

Hi Mag.

we used to do experiments with these devices back in High School Physics class, it has been known for some time as a novelty toy.

I think the russian guy sells schematics on how he builds his but I did draw up a diagram of how ours worked in class but I don't have the precise measurements and parts listings, I do remember that the clock spring had a set screw on it to adjust for spring tension which was a crucial factor in the returned sling shot effect.

Jerry