FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009

[Omnibus]

It's unclear how signing this NDA would aid in making a working model. Because of the known fact that the fields of magnets are discrepant even when perfectly matching geometrically, the plans which this NDA will provide would be to no avail. All the NDA seems to provide are some obvious dimensions (obvious from the available vid) and probably a method as to how to align the four slanted magnets for the motor to work. The crucial elements are the four angles at which the four holes those four slanted magnets are protruded through and these angles unfortunately differ from device to device due to the mentioned discrepancy of the magnetic fields from magnet to magnet. Any thoughts?

As in other such cases (@xpenzif, @alsetalokin, Mylow, Torbay, to name a few) a visit to ascertain the validity of the claim is a must prior to signing the NDA and any further effort, it seems. There's no proof that the guy is in Portugal even. Isn't this a rehash of the well known modern scams mainly aimed at discouraging and punishing the wide-eyed enthusiasts through leading them by the nose to exhaustion along a barren but seemingly plausible path?

[Magluvin]

Omnibus wrote
As in other such cases (@xpenzif, @alsetalokin, Mylow, Torbay, to name a few) a visit to ascertain the validity of the claim is a must prior to signing the NDA and any further effort, it seems. There's no proof that the guy is in Portugal even. Isn't this a rehash of the well known modern scams mainly aimed at discouraging and punishing the wide-eyed enthusiasts through leading them by the nose to exhaustion along a barren but seemingly plausible path?


I agree

Magluvin

[DMBoss]

It's unclear how signing this NDA would aid in making a working model. Because of the known fact that the fields of magnets are discrepant even when perfectly matching geometrically, the plans which this NDA will provide would be to no avail. All the NDA seems to provide are some obvious dimensions (obvious from the available vid) and probably a method as to how to align the four slanted magnets for the motor to work. The crucial elements are the four angles at which the four holes those four slanted magnets are protruded through and these angles unfortunately differ from device to device due to the mentioned discrepancy of the magnetic fields from magnet to magnet. Any thoughts?

Yes, not only is the geometry very critical, but his statement the rotor material does not matter, is not in accord with the facts.  Austenic stainless is of variable "magnetic properties" depending on alloy and work hardening history!

I use stainless fasteners and all are 304 or 18-8 grade.  They are almost all slightly ferromagnetic, because screw forming machines and cold drawing cause work hardening to occur, raising their permeability!

In fact I just received the 304 stainless stock from which to machine a rotor for this project that, due to being cold formed rod, has several lbs of pull to a 1" cube N50 magnet! (cold forming is some serious work hardening and machining it further work hardens it too)

If his rotor is 304, which is the alloy you get if you merely ask for "Stainless" - it is likely it is magnetic, and thus moderates the inserted magnet fields!  I have 3D magnetic simulation software and am fluent with it's proper use.

Adding a stainless rotor to the model in simulation, with a mu of 10, there are regions of this rotor that have 1,000 to 2,000 gauss flux density in them, and the torque and forces between rotor and stators is much different when you add the slightly magnetic stainless rotor!

See here for a good write up of the properties of the 300 series stainless:

http://cartech.asia/techarticles.aspx?id=1476

And 400 series are as ferromagnetic as cold rolled steel!  But his is not 400 series, it is much "brighter" as it contains more chromium.

So not only are there abundant obvious unknowns, there are more subtle unknowns and inconsistent statements by this "inventor" too.

Example is you do indeed get regions of "attract" from the skewed or tilted magnets, but if your rotor is slightly ferromagnetic - this attract zone at the tilt magnets is amplified!  And the field structure is completely different with the slightly magnetic rotor forming part of the flux return paths all round!  Yet he says the rotor material does not matter?

However the $64,000 question still remains as to whether this video is faked or not!  Some powerful open neo magnets on a rotor below the table, could spin this visible rotor at a distance!

That posibility combined with a number of inconsistent statements and implausible statements by this "inventor" are not good signs! (elsewhere he claims to have made 9 variations of this working principle, some with extremely sophisticated non circular gearing systems - which is completely inconsistent with his level of machining acumen visible in this video and photos)

DMBoss

[magnetman12003]

Hi All,

Let me put all this speculation to rest once and for all.

I recieved the plans after sending the inventor a copy of my drivers licence.  Sending any other lform of legal paperwork could lead to identity theft.

I will not and can not legally reveal any plan information.

Am I going to "waste my time and money" to construct it??

A big fat ---NO!! ---

Enough said-- case closed.


  I also want to thank all you guys about steering me onto ceramic bearings for my future projects. I now have a couple of open bearings on order.

[Omnibus]

magnetman12003,

Could you please say a little more as to what made you close the case?