The self-filling siphon, and why can't it be done?

[Rhead100]

 

[nueview]

hi all
maybe you need to take a look at a ram pump they were popular in the 1800's for pumping water up hill and need very little head pressure but it is required

a tank a few feet up with a large pipe out a check valve for the large pipe a tee to a small tank another tee for the large pipe with a small pipe out the tee and a gate valve that can be closed and opened very rapidly

when the gate valve opens the water flows at high velocity in the large pipe for some distance gaining mass velocity and when the gate valve is slammed shut the water pressurizes the space in the tank and the small tube that raises the water but at a reduced rate as it is much smaller when the air in the tank is fully compressed it begins to push back and closes the check valve to the head pressure tank and stops this loss of pressure forcing water up the small tube to a higher elevation due to volume pressure difference until it equalizes at which time if the gate valve is opened and the water flows the process begins again.each time there is a reduction of flow due to the water that must be waisted to get the flow volume up to speed again for the next lift but they are very efficient as pumps go

Martin

[dr_octo]

hi all,

i found an information on a website showing a diagram that can be a very simple demo of a perpetual motion.
the basic principle is lifting water to a higher level from the source, by using force/power from gravity alone.

This design is very similar with the diagram in reply #37 and reply #61
some pictures of a replication attempts can be found here
http://saracens.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/pompa-air-tenaga-gravitasi/

do you guys think that this simple device/principle will work?
i haven't tried to replicate it yet

[Nabo00o]

Hi Octo I am so sorry that i haven't replied to your message before now! I believe i have understood the operation of the machine you show here, and it is extremely interesting! What i wanted from the beginning was something that was constructed as simple as possible in regards to its working principle, and this is exactly that.

However I believe this siphon pump will not work at all, because it actually does the opposite of its thought operation.

The key to everything here relies on the forces on the piston you have between the water intake/air surface and the air surface/water drain.
These two are disproportional, so the forces between them will be unbalanced, however in the wrong direction in my opinion.
Since the intake surface is small while the drain surface is large, the force of gravity acting on the intake water will get magnified compared to the force on the drain water; thus it will pull on the drain water, emptying the air and therefore removing the piston all together.

I tried in my head to construct the opposite ratio, but I found it hard. However I see now that it CAN be done, so i want to make a drawing of it. You basically just need to reverse the ratio between the intake and drain surface, then the water piston will work to your advantage. The best part is even though i call it a piston it shouldn't even move at all!

I hope all the best and also that you didn't take any offense in my observations or opinions.
Julian

Edit: Here is a basic sketch of what I think could work, please try to see the similarity between this and your image.
This is in 2D, so of course to get a 1:2 or 1:4 ratio etc. in 3D you would have to take into account pi squared if you made a cylinder for example. But I think the higher surface ratio the better, until you limited the actual flow of water.
And please reply!

[brian334]

I could be wrong, but my guess is you would get more horsepower hooking a harness up to a ant than any of these machine will ever produce.