Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

[mondrasek]

Observer,

1)  You are the only one I have seen stand by the statement: 

     Same string...Same Strum... Acoustic String vibrates longer than Electric String

This is completely untrue.  I believe you are not recognizing that the electric string vibrates longer because you cannot "hear" it.  If you were to amplify the output (as it is designed to do) you would clearly "hear" that the electric rings out much longer than the acoustic.  So far your "tests" have not been performed properly and you are sticking to your false observations.  Appears to be motivated reasoning.

2)  The article is referring to a an acoustic guitar WITH sound board as "amplified" (vs. one without a sound board being unamplified).  The sound board is "amplifying" in the sense that it is converting the mechanical vibration of the string into louder sound waves.  Amplify in this case means only to make louder.  It does not mean, however, that extra energy is added (or created) in order to do so.  It is simply energy conversion from one form into sound.

3)  What "results" do you want addressed?  I have said I am willing to discuss further.  I'm waiting for you to bring something up.  Like I have said, resonance is really neat.  But it also has never been shown to create energy, so I am not sure what aspect you want to discuss.  I'm also not sure what you would become suspicious of.

You asked a question in the subject of this thread.  I have answered it as best I can (as have several others).  This was in the spirit of helping you learn the answer to your question.  No other "ulterior motive".

M.

[The Observer]

Hello Mon,

First, although it pisses me off that you can't see what I am talking about,
                                            I am thankful that there is 1 person out of all here will talk about this.

                        Thanks Mon !

2 Things...

1. I was wondering if you knew what Tesla was going to do with Wardencliff?
 
    I propose that ultimately there were going to be 2 towers on opposite sides of the globe.
    And Tesla planned on building a Resonant Electromagnetic Standing Wave between the two.
    The antinodes of these waves is where you could tune into the energy (like a radio).

2. There is a common physics experiment.

    It involves a Speaker... and a Tube with a hose connected to a Water Reservoir. (see below)

This is what you do.

    A. Start Speaker at a single tone.
    B. Adjust Water Reservoir to vary water in Tube.
    C. Stop when you hear a loud sound (resonance is occurring)

Ok analyze what is happening.

                Quite simply, before resonance a small wave enters the tube... a small wave leaves the tube.

                                         after resonance a small wave enters the tube... a large wave leaves the tube.

                                I could make a picture... I don't think I have to.

The point is... when a small wave gets turned into into a large wave amplification has occurred.

             I am sure you would have no problem with this definition if there  was an electric amplifier involved.

The Observer.

[mondrasek]

Observer,

I'm not sure a second tower would be necessary, or if a multitude of towers would.  Sometimes I wonder if it was just to be as simple as transferring energy between two coils, like a transformer without a core, but at a distance.  So any coil tuned to the correct frequency would be able to pick up power if within reasonable range of the tower.  But then again I wonder if the frequency he was working with was attempting to use the Earth itself as part of the resonant circuit, effectively increasing the range as well.

Here is the thing with Resonance:  You only get out what you put in.  Resonance is simply a way of trapping the first impulse of an energy wave somewhat and then adding the second and third to it.  So it actually takes time to build up.  Usually this is so fast that you do not notice it.  It is like if you yell into an echo canyon.  Then when the echo comes back you yell again.  So the echo and your second yell add together to produce a louder volume.  But only on that second cycle.  The first wave was not louder.  And the energy of the second louder yell + echo is no greater than the two individual ones.

Set up and tune any resonant system, including your latest water chamber one.  Turn it off and let everything settle.  Now turn it on and accurately record the results (so that you can see the first dozen or so cycles stretched out).  You will find that the sound starts with a low volume, as if the resonant system is not there.  It then builds with every cycle to a maximum amplitude where the losses equal the energy added each cycle.  This is the case with the acoustic guitar as well.  Each note actually builds in volume from the initial pluck as the resonant "echos" reinforce it.

You can increase the voltage of an electrical signal by using a transformer.  Voltage goes up, but current goes down.  Also, you can trap an electrical signal in a resonant tank circuit and let it build up tremendous amounts of energy.  But in the end, the energy in the circuit is never more than the sum of the energy in each cycle that was input.  These effects are analogous to what you see with your experiments with acoustic resonance.  Energy is not created.  It is only stored up and released at a larger amplitude.  With the case of the guitar you trade volume for sustain.  IE, if you do not bleed the energy in a plucked string by making sound, it will ring longer (the electric guitar).  Bleed the energy in the plucked string to make sound (the acoustic guitar), and it will ring for shorter.

"Amplification" does not have to mean an increase of energy.  Adding energy is only one way to amplify a sound or signal.  Amplify has several meanings, and one is simply to "make louder".  This can be accomplished many ways.  It can be as simple as adding a sound board element to convert mechanical vibration into sound waves.  It can be more complex, by adding resonant elements that reinforce each cycle and build the volume similar to the echo canyon example.  The authors use correct but different meanings of the word "amplification" throughout those Wikipedia articles.  Unfortunately you have to grasp which definition of "amplification" the author means with each use from context.

Thought experiment:  Which will ring longer, an electric guitar string or an acoustic guitar string if both are in a vacuum?

M.

[The Observer]

When you observe the experiment with the water level above,
   It is imperative to think about what is going on.

1. A small portion of the sound waves from the speaker interact with the tube.

2. When Resonance occurs... yes the wave energy builds up in a short time.
    This is however negligible because the speaker can go for a long time.

3. The Fact is that small waves enter the tube... and large waves leave the tube.

4. The simplest physics there is states waves of larger amplitude posess more energy than the same wave of smaller amplitude.

It is completely obvious that the sound has been amplified to an impartial observer.

The Observer

[The Observer]

Hello,

I had never really looked at the Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory much til it snowed the other day.

                                   In the the First Post ! the basis of the theory is stated.

The Lee-Tseung theory predicts that both gravitational and electron motion energy can be Lead Out
via Pulse Force at Resonance on oscillating, vibrating, rotating or flux change systems.

Wow... Forced Resonance... my Passion !
Now I know there is at least 1 other person who hears the Acoustic Guitar as I do. ;o)
                 If you are wondering, I think that an Acoustic Guitar is Louder and rings Longer than and Electric.
                Actually I know this... One of the few apparently !

Looks like Lee-Tsueng is a bit farther than me on the path of investigating Resonance.

                                            As I am to the point... of just pointing at the extra energy due to Resonance and thinking " hmm."

With Great Appreciation I Thank Lee, Tseung and the other Brilliant Chinese who have investigated this.

The Observer