I see an economic diasater coming...

[d3adp00l]

Ok Some info on economics,

I agree with you on all your points exxcom, But heres the rub, getting small businesses for a lot of things is not a possibilty in this business structure, there is so much regulation that no one can do it and make any money. This is a shame and will change.

But to blame normal people who barely get by for shopping from walm@rt isn't really going to give a solution. Remember to put the blame of their actions squarely on wal  marts shoulders. They made the choices not to buy their products from the US. Its easier to change that one decision than millions, and yet the result is the same.

On your enumerated points, RIGHT THE F ON!!!!! exactly

[d3adp00l]

I really want a copy of that info att, is there anyway to get a copy.

[d3adp00l]

The invisable line, I asked myself this same question, where is the line and why.

The line exists when a different measure of labor is used, we normally refer to this as money. When you outsource you open a hole in the monetary system which can only be fixed by making more money.

The correction to this is to only import raw materials, and to never import more than you export, this means that the money in the society stays there, and the monetary supply is stable.

Does this limit business from making profit, yes, do I care NO. Businesses exist because the community in which it exists allows it to, this business owes its exsistance to the community that created it, and it should exist only to benefit the community, not to hurt it.

Now these companies can open in other countries, but what happens in those countries stays there.

For example GE, it has stuff here, and in france (among others) the french version should keep its finances completely separate, and it should operate as a stand alone body, the CEO's of each branch can get together and establish company wide policies, and make commitments for purchasing for both versions, but they can't mix funding.

This really benefits GE, How? here, if the french version goes into the toliet it doesn't affect the amercian version finicially, meaning that it doesn't lay off people in the community it exists in. Now what does the french version do? well it restructres and comes back, or goes away.

As far as establishing a business in a new location, GE could take representives to a new country, lets say XYZ, they can establish the proper business entity by attracting investors, they can show how well the company has done in other countries and get venture capital, they then find and hire local people, and the company can share intellectual property only. It can only share its ideas, and methods, but they must be implimented in that local country. The employees representing the company are only marketers.

So why would they get bigger and go multi national if they cant share profits, it still gives them the purchasing power, and size they crave and state is so needed for them to do what they do. They can use all the talent from other countires to gain ground and develope new technologies, they just cant move money and product around, but ideas can move.

[d3adp00l]

Ok economic systems, barter vs fiat currency.

Lets look at the effectiviness of our monetary system.

I work 40 hours, supposely for 25 per hour
   I earned 1000.00 dollars right?
             Take out taxes directly   750.00
             so I worked 40 hours and got 30 hours worth of money.

Now I go spend that money, here sales tax is 10%
so now I am down to 27 hours

A good portion goes to gasoline which is taxed more calced it works out to around 3 % of the total, so now I am at 24% (since the gas was purchased from the 30 hours income)

24 hours so far, now the products I bought supported the tax base of the company I bought it from, approx. 7% of the sales price is their taxes, which I pay, so I really got 22.3 hours worth of goods.

I also pay for the profit margin of the company approx 15% (from the 24 hours) so18.72 hours worth of goods, take out credti interests (mortgage and cards, and vehicle) and we can safely round that number down to 15 hrs

so I work 40 hours, and I get 15 hours worth of goods or services in exchange, THATS ONE HELL OF A DEAL. And we havent touched property tax, your local police tax, car registration, and on and on and on.

without all of that you get 37.5% of your hour worked in this system.



Lets look at barter, I work 1 hour for you, in exchange for you to work 1 hour for me. I got 100% of my hour in exchange, a perfectly efficient transaction.

Now if you deal with people who do not operate with the "Profit Maximization" business model, but they operate with the "fair and reasonable" business model then you can do hour for hour transactions all day long.

All you have to agree on is that your hour is worth mine, I don't care what you do, we all are limited in the time we will be here, and there is nothing more valuable than time we can not buy more time. So if you think your life is more valuable than mine, you are just a greedy bastard.

If you stood next to a cliff and watched someone fall, we you know damned well you could have saved them, I would say you indirectly murdered them.

People love to use doctors at this point, saying that their time is worth more than mine, and that I would pay anything if my wife or children needed the doctors help. If a doctor used my position (hanging from a cliff) to maximized his profit because of the threat of harm that might come to my loved one, he might as well have indirectly killed them.

Better yet, he might as well hold a gun to their head and demand me give him money, at least that form of robbery is honest.

People now say, well they have to spend so much on school. Thats only because the school knows how much they will make when they get out, again profit maximization, if it was hour for hour type transactions, then they wouldn't have a debt when they got out.

Again your life is not worth more than mine, and not worth less than mine either.

[d3adp00l]

Jerry I am sorry but you are very ignorant. You do not have even a cursory understanding of how our taxes get spent, or where most of them come from. This is unfortunately very common. Please educate yourself, start here.

Your example is poor at best, and completely irrelevant.

You want defence, ok sure, first off, the fedral gov, should only be able to tax incoming and outgoing raw materials. Do you have any idea how much raw material we would export if we only exported raw materials? Imported also? The numbers are mind bogeling. But again would it be enough? Maybe not, (more probably it would) The current mil budget is around 480 billion.

Limiting the amount of money the feds can get would limit their spending, some we need, it takes away their blank check to endebt the next 4 generations.

We export trillions of tons of materials now, they get their cut of both the import and export, just think how much oil we import. You should get the idea.

Next place the feds can get money is to ASK the state governments, this means not only does congress and senate get to vote on it, the governer and state have to vote on it. This puts the control of the spending of money much closer to the people and their voting.

Back to barter, barter works for small transactions, but large ones done by businesses and govs has to use a place holder for the barter system/hour system, in order to have these notes you have to become a business, and to do business with these businesses you have to trade for these notes, this puts the taxation on those notes in plain view for all to see and understand.

You have a choice at that time, buy from a business, or buy by barter, which ever gets you what you want is a choice you can make, now you have the power of choice, and the ability to vote with your time/money.

Local governments are the only ones able to tax a busniess, and businesses are they only ones who pay tax, so if you don't like what your governements are doing, then take your money away, BY CHOICE. These local governements pay a portion of their gathered tax to the state, since the city exists in the state it pays its membership fees to the states,

the states pay its membership fees to the feds, a set percentage across the board, anything above that set percentage has to be a choice made at each level.

This means that elected officials will think long and hard before spending your money, they are very close to you at the local level. and your vote does count for something to them.

if a state gets a fedral money request, the state then approves it and sends the request to the local governement. if you don't like it, then you rally against it. If your local gov decides to pay, then vote them out.

If a local government doesnt pass the request, then they don't pay, if 40% of the cities veto the request, and 60% passes it, then the 60% pay the amount requested of them individually, the other don't pay.

If a state doesn't pass the request then it doesn't pay.

This means that statistacally the feds would get most of the money requested, IF it was a reasonable request. If not they don't get much money. If they don't do what they promised with the money, then they must pay it back. This means, that if they come up with a request, that kinda sucks, and they are only going to get 40% of the requested money, and that 40% won;t get the job done, then they recind the request, and don't take the money. because they know they will fail with too little money, and they don't want to pay from their own income. (imports/exports)

Or they can re-request more money from the willing states, or they can re-request from all states, but this time they need to convince us its worth while to spend the money.

Law making would work similarly, putting laws that affect individuals as close to the individual as possible.

this means the feds can't make laws that take rights away from us. If they want to do that, then they need to amend the damned constitution.

They have circumvented the ratification process, by making statute laws.

ACTS ARE NOT LAWS. acts have the power of law, only if you agree to the contract, and then it ACTS as a law. Its an ACT of the fedral governement ON YOU.

We need to teach these things in our public schools.