Joule Thief 101

[tinman]

Brad:

If there is "much more research and information on combustion resonance research" then how come the only link you could come up with talked about the undesirable effects of any kind of resonance associated with combustion in a cylinder?  Right now I am suspecting that you tried to find something and thought that you struck pay-dirt, but you didn't really read through it.  I am sure there is a ton of research on combustion in a piston, but you are going to have to prove with good links that there is "combustion resonance research" to convince me.

MileHigh

I will dig up some more info for you ASAP.
Like I said, there is truth in what you say about unwanted resonance. But that truth also dismisses your claim about there being no resonancs what so ever within the internals of the ICE ir self.
They use information gathered around these resonant effect to increase the efficiency of the ICE.


Brad

[sm0ky2]

while this is interesting and all, History seems to side with Milehigh on this one.

It was discovered in the days of early locomotive trains,
when 4-cylinder Sterling engines were being used to ship goods across the country

the resonant frequency of the combustion chamber
(think of it as the tube of a pipe organ)
results in an uncontrollable vibration that shook the entire train to pieces.
every since then, engines were designed NOT to do this.
from the intake, to the stroke distance, the explosion time, to the exhaust.
This timing is intentionally designed to NOT be resonant with the combustion chamber.
Otherwise, the standing wave would make the engines RPM unpredictable,
and cause unwanted vibrations at the resonant frequency, throughout the entire vehicle.

This is just one form of resonance that can occur (the primary one) within an ICE.
there are also, resonances that can occur within the drive-belt system.
diameters of pulleys, spinning masses, tension, and a tiny wobble in one of the pulleys,
at just the right rpm, you can shake the engine on its' mounts!

there are also resonances that can occur within the exhaust system,
as it pertains to RPM, back-pressure, lengths and diameters of the pipes, etc.
one of the functions of the muffler/cat is to restrict flow to prevent resonance.
full resonance resulted in a violent 'sputtering' of the exhaust
while half-wave created a vacuum in the exhaust manifold that decreased the overall power of the engine.
or even back-firing
cars that remove these components can sometimes experience this.

Now, half the bore of your engine, squared, times pi,
which is coincidentally, the displacement, as well as the volume of the resonant standing wave...
is a frequency in the Ghz range.
so the resonance you are incurring is the 6th lower harmonic.
or rather, the 6th higher harmonic of the engines RPM can be resonant with the combustion cylinder.
[this is unwanted]

I said that both ways, so everyone gets it.
I like to think of these things as being transfluent, like a musical scale.
going up or down to infinity and the infinitesimal.
then all I have to keep track of is at what point it goes from a multiple, to a divisor.

Some people, because of education or occupation, are trained to only go up, or only down respectively.

If you think about the frequency of the explosions,
with respect to the volume of gas exiting during the exhaust part of the cycle
and the volume of tube this gas will occupy during the amount of time before the next gush comes out.
a resonance in this volume of the pipe will do nothing good for the engine cycle,
because it is post-exhaust.
It can either evacuate the chamber very quickly, or it can restrict such from occurring.
If either of these conditions exceed engine tolerances, it causes problems.

Resonance may help push the exhaust out the end of the tailpipe, and I guess in some abstract way it can help
with propulsion (pulsejet?)
but I would hardly consider that to be an "efficiency gain", when considering the eventual replacement
of rubber mounts, and weld-points.

Now, if we consider a resonance in the intake part of the engine,
perhaps the periodicity of pulses from the fuel pump,
with respect to the intakes of the cylinders
this could result in a decrease in restrictive flow losses from tank to engine
meaning less "load" on the fuel pump,
perhaps there is an RPM, which your fuel pump works more efficiently.
how much of the cars fuel usage is attributed to the pump? not much.....
But this does give futile credence to an ICE resonance discussion.

[Then I said to myself:
"self - you just said to them that resonance was a bad thing, then showed them a way that it could help!"
  and myself said to me "No, you just got turned around at the alternator".]

the alternator!?!
This operates desirably at a self resonant frequency,. the manufacturer told us so.....
can we drive at an RPM, that our alternator operates the best at?
yes, when the A/C clutch is not engaged, you can generally notice a brightening of your dash lights
within a certain RPM range.

it is usually between 2 and 3,000 or so, when the secondary coil is fully saturated, and the belt is spinning at just the right speed.

Then we get to resonance in the tires/wheels.......   let's not waste our time, its just Bad...

Now,. we can go through all of the systems within car, or motorcycle, or gocart, or lawnmower,
and find different scenarios where resonance may help or hinder operation.
But it is impossible for all of these frequencies to be resonant together.
you may have one, or another, at different rpms.
it all seems like a pointless argument, in general you don't want resonances in an ICE,
and if you did manage to achieve one that was helpful, you have to keep your vehicle at that RPM
to sustain the effect....

drive 55 Mph, and only on cold days.
you will get the best MPG

[sm0ky2]

Yes Cavity resonance would seem a path to results.
your friend Robby squeezing 1HP for every 2CC's of displacement with a Huge standing wave.

here is a very simple Cavity resonance device which has always tickled My Fancy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZoiY3FvxKo

That doesn't belong to them.
This was part of a set of experiments done by a scientist named Peter Davey
Physical acoustic vibrations simulate the effect caused electromagnetically by your microwave oven.
the larger  sphere shown here, is a container, holding the water.
the "heater" is a smaller sphere inside, of a specific diameter.
Peter worked on this technology for the later of the last 20 years of his life.
it got media attention in 2008, (he was 91 or 92 then)
but still able to explain how it works in great detail.

its quite simple, but so complex no one understands it.
a standing wave is created inside the sphere, which causes it to physically vibrate like a speaker.
the water vibrates at the same freq, which causes it to heat up.

you can't see it in this (hijacked) video, because its inside the thing that is shown,
which is just a tank of water.

[Johan_1955]

Wow wee, if you put air into a cylinder under pressure it helps you get more air into the cylinder and therefore you can put more fuel into the cylinder for a bigger bang.  That's really amazing out-of-the-box thinking that the PTB don't want you to know about.  But the actual engine itself, the pistons, the valves, the camshaft, the crankcase, the ignition, etc, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with resonance.

And then you roll out the pistol shrimp for the 30th time - which has nothing to do with resonance.

Than why more joule on a spark-plug is not always better?

When the Plasma-Ingition builders, are doing measurements than they will agree: That a certain fuel needs a certain spark! ;-))

[Johan_1955]

It's worthwhile to point out the truth, and reject wishful thinking and fantasy talk.  We are adults and not children watching a cartoon.  WITTS and Ainslie are fantasy junk, and the WITTS organization is just a front for sucking money out of people.  Posting your resonance fantasies and stating them like they are true facts is simply ridiculous.  It's the same reason that people spend $100 on a flashlight that supposedly "never needs recharging" and in reality it doesn't work.  It looks like Orbo Girl has stopped posting her weekly updates for her cell phone that "never needs recharging."  At least have the courage to speak the truth among yourselves.  If you make a claim that is out of the ordinary then prove it.

The "Red Card" should be the "Red Truth Card."  Forget your MIB fantasies.  I played the truth card, this is not the Flintstones.

Wow, so defensive, your typing like a: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_gun

Not sharp, but just random, every is your enemy: Bedini, Dollard, what did you say about Cristal-Meth?

So many need for compensating, can be: Lonely, balcony to low, .................. ?

Please and Real, come here for a month's or 2, welcome if you have the .............. or nuts!

Next take: RA, now some other engine (electric) on the move, yep retired, you still not?