Joule Thief 101

[MileHigh]

Brad:

We started off this thread with Smoky2 making the "resonance/they don't want you to know" pitch, and you making your pitch by just casually saying, "Oh, it's an RLC circuit, that should be obvious and everybody knows that."

And those two points are completely wrong and it's almost surprising that these things would be said after six years worth of playing with Joule Thieves.  So I set out to set the record straight for the benefit of all people that are truly interested in building and experimenting with Joule Thieves.

So I made the correct points so you guys and the readers would get it right.  Then I got a lot of push-back from both of you, a hell of a lot of it.  So I pushed back myself.  So now there is a lot of drama associated with this thread and the old Joule Thief regulars are watching it.

You have been making mistakes and that upsets you and you would almost die if you would admit that.  You should resolve that problem within yourself.  So you are taking a counter-measure strategy where you are doing a "play."  The "play" is to try to feign that I am the one that doesn't understand what is going on, so you are asking me questions.  The backdrop to all of this is that I have been around long enough so that you, and nearly everybody else watching, already has a very decent idea what my knowledge level is.

So I am not going to answer your silly basic questions that you know I know the answer to and presumably most of the readers know that I know the answer to.  We are going to get this right for your benefit and for others' benefit without the  needless BS and fake psychodrama.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Brad:

Because it is painfully clear even when i do,you still pay no attention to it.

That's an example of the fake psychodrama and I wish it would stop.

I mean ,it wouldnt have anything to do with junction capacitance within the transistor it self--would it MH,as that would mean that the!your! JT circuit would be an RLC circuit-->and we cant have that. (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)

The ball is in your court on this one.  You tell me why with junction capacitance or without junction capacitance, it's not an RLC circuit.

So following your description of the workings of your JT MH,how exactly would it continue to run once the battery voltage is below the required voltage to switch on the transistor ?.
Facepalm ?

Your question is another example of the fake psychodrama.  You already know the answer to this question.  So why don't you, for the benefit of the readers, give them a nice succinct paragraph that explains the whys and hows for them.  This is one of the great key things about the Joule Thief.

Below is your JT circuit,along with the circuit i used. Now have a good look MH,and tell me the difference in operation between the two.

There is a huge mistake in the circuit that you plucked off the Internet.  Why don't you fix the mistake first and even annotate it so that it reflects what was shown in your clip.  How about you discuss the starting procedure for the benefit of the readers.

Now have a good look MH,and tell me the difference in operation between the two.

The real challenge for you is this:  Explain to the readers how the two circuits are virtually identical and how they operate essentially the same way in your own words.

I would also like to add that in my circuit below,it is better to have the LED in position 2. This creates a current loop through the LED and inductor only,while position 1 creates a current loop that includes the battery,where the voltage potential through the loop is opposite to that of the batteries voltage potential.

Besides the huge mistake in your schematic that you need to fix, the latter part of the quote above is ambiguous and has issues.  Please fix it up so that it is understandable.

MileHigh

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg474397#msg474397 date=1455680774
Brad:

We started off this thread with Smoky2 making the "resonance/they don't want you to know" pitch, and you making your pitch by just casually saying, "Oh, it's an RLC circuit, that should be obvious and everybody knows that."

I was not the first to claim it was an RLC circuit MH-->hint,reply 104
Quote: Several heated discussions, have led to the understanding of SRF with respect to the LRC portion of the circuit.However, the transistor function seems to cause problems for many.
Now MH-weather you like it or not,this is where the C is in the LRC-->in the junction capacitance of the transistor,where the miller effect is created.

And those two points are completely wrong and it's almost surprising that these things would be said after six years worth of playing with Joule Thieves.  So I set out to set the record straight for the benefit of all people that are truly interested in building and experimenting with Joule Thieves.

The fact is MH,you are doing the opposite. You are plastering incorrect/incomplete information all over this thread,and as you can see,the thread has died,and Smokey has left<--got sick of arguing with the arm chair guru i would expect.

So I made the correct points so you guys and the readers would get it right.  Then I got a lot of push-back from both of you, a hell of a lot of it.  So I pushed back myself.  So now there is a lot of drama associated with this thread and the old Joule Thief regulars are watching it.

No MH,your points are incorrect,and 1 example is that you think that the JT is a circuit. It is not 1 single circuit,it is any circuit that can perform or create a similar outcome-->that being able to almost fully deplete a battery of it's stored energy while driving an LED(or other loads)
The reason you get pushback MH,is because you are trying to tell people like Smokey and myself that we are wrong,even though i(and a few others) have shown you that the C value in these types of circuit's can alone keep the circuit functioning-->the miller effect. As soon as you add a transistor MH,you have a capacitance value that plays a part in the overall circuit operation-->these are fact's,and anyone reading this thread can look for them self what the junction capacitance value is for the transistor they are using. It's there MH,and you cant make it go away.

You have been making mistakes and that upsets you and you would almost die if you would admit that.  You should resolve that problem within yourself.

I have made no mistakes MH in my claims here on this thread. In fact,i have shown you people that have replicated JT circuit's that rely on the C of the RLC circuit to operate. This is fact MH,and as much as you would like to try and push your rubbish through,i have presented evidence against your claims by way of working devices.

So you are taking a counter-measure strategy where you are doing a "play."  The "play" is to try to feign that I am the one that doesn't understand what is going on, so you are asking me questions.  The backdrop to all of this is that I have been around long enough so that you, and nearly everybody else watching, already has a very decent idea what my knowledge level is.

Unfortunately MH,your knowledge is from yesty year,and there are those that have gained more knowledge through bench time,and results achieved,and then being able to interpret those result's.
As i said,the operation description you gave for the JT is incomplete,and incorrect.

So I am not going to answer your silly basic questions that you know I know the answer to and presumably most of the readers know that I know the answer to.

Big copout MH,and clearly show's you cannot answer my questions,as you know that your explanation of how the JT circuit will be shown to be incorrect if you do answer my two questions.

So i will ask once again MH,how dose the transistor switch on once the batteries voltage drops below the threshold voltage required to turn the transistor on?. Answer this by using your quoted operation of a JT
Lets have a close look at your operation description.
    1. Initially the transistor is off.
    2. A small amount of electricity goes through the resistor and the first coil to the base of the transistor. This partially opens up the collector-emitter channel. Electricity is now able to travel through the second coil and through the collector-emitter channel of the transistor.
    3. The increasing amount of electricity through the second coil generates a magnetic field that induces a greater amount of electricity in the first coil.

Ok,so right from the start,the battery voltage must be slightly more than the voltage required to start to open the C/E junction of the transistor(the required base voltage). With a 2n3055 this voltage is 700mV as per spec's.
Now lets look at the last part of your operating description.
Quote: 12. The built up energy goes through the load in a big spike. Once the energy is dissipated, the circuit is effectively reset and starts the whole process all over again.

So MH,dont take the copout route--explain to everyone here,how the circuit continues to operate once the battery voltage falls below the switch on threshold voltage of the transistor?.
For example(which i have provided proof of operation),my last circuit(that you claim to be a different variation of your JT circuit)uses a 2n3055 transistor,and the base voltage required to switch that transistor on is around 700mV(this you can check for your self). So if we use your operating description,then my circuit should stop working once the battery voltage is close to that 700mV needed to switch on the transistor. But as everyone can see here,it is happy to keep running on a supply voltage less than 250mV .

So like i said MH,your operation description of how the JT works is incorrect,and the evidence speaks for it self.

 

We are going to get this right for your benefit and for others' benefit without the  needless BS and fake psychodrama.

Your darn right we are,and as can be clearly seen MH--you are posting incorrect operations of how the circuit work's. The only one leading people astray here MH,is you,and your incorrect operation explanations of how the JT work's.

12. The built up energy goes through the load in a big spike. Once the energy is dissipated, the circuit is effectively reset and starts the whole process all over again.

This is absolute bollocks,and i have proven it to be in my last video.
If you want people to learn the correct operations of a JT circuit MH,then i recommend you go and do some more home work your self,as the operation you stated is clearly wrong--and the fact that you refuse to answer my question's, speaks volume's in your actual knowledge of how JT circuits actually work.

Brad

[tinman]

For those interested,here is a variation of my last circuit.
This one is far more efficient than the last,as far as light output verses P/in go's.
This circuit drives the LED via L2 instead of L1


Brad

[tinman]

A quick video on the circuit above.
The 10k VR has been omitted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCnT6C7T81o


Brad