Joule Thief 101

[Johan_1955]

The Math is always based on hands-on results, and bookkeepers are just following the dirty hands, when smart!?

Yep, dirty-hands makes this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zDmlOYiaTI

Calculate: Just only 50 cc and 24.2Pk, just a low eff. 2-stroke according 'paper backs' of Uni's.

Calculate, and see the Dyno should be wrong, according ................... pen lickers religion! ;-))

[tinman]

Nerzh, Tagor:

You are the guys that are trolling this thread.  We are trying to talk about resonance and you are disturbing the thread.

Brad:

But did you get the points that I am making?  Do you understand that in my example the question of measuring the maximum speed of the car is irrelevant, I am not even interested in it.  It's all about understanding how you determine the maximum speed, not actually measuring it.



MileHigh

Ok MH,i said i was not going to reply to you any more,but in the interest of the discussion ,and the method behind the madness,i will answer your question.

If we are to determine what the maximum speed of the car is,it cannot be done using your example Quote: The answer is the maximum speed of the car is determined from where the maximum horsepower that can be output by the engine is in balance with all of the air friction and various other friction forces.
The top speed of the car cannot be determined using the above.
Like with the wine glass,all of the relevant information must be provided to make an accurate measurement of the top speed of the car,and you have missed vital information regarding the environment that the vehicle will be traveling in. This is the same with determining the resonant frequency of the wine glass--all information needs to be supplied to make that determination.

The only way to find the top speed of a motor vehicle that is operated within the environment it is to operate in ,and where all the other information is missing or incomplete, is to actually measure it under working conditions-as with the wine glass.

So how do we determine the top speed of the car ,when there is incomplete information that is needed to make such a determination--we actually measure the speed of the car ,in the environment it is to operate in.
The very same go's for the wine glass,where unless !all! relevant information is provided,we can simply determine the resonant frequency by measuring it.

Do you get my points and understand how they apply to the wine glass discussion or not?

Did you read your own post?.
Do you understand as to why myself and smOKy say that all relevant information must be supplied in order to determine what the resonant frequency of the wine glass will be.
Do you understand that without all this information,that the only way to accurately determine the resonant frequency of the wine glass ,is to measure it.
Do you understand that this !can! be done using a microphone and scope--now posted by a number of people now,with links that validate the procedure.
And do you now understand how hard it would be to provide !all! the required information to make such a determination--like the way you tried to determine the top speed of a car,where some of the  required information to make such a determination was missing,and thus would result in an incorrect determination of the top speed of the car.


Brad

[ramset]

Very simple MH
thank you for the analogy..
so to understand you ,, the foot is the path to understanding in your analogy of the cars top speed.

point and stomp [foot on gas]   

so maybe with a similar analogy towards breaking the Glass[don't worry NZ the Wine is gone]

the hammer [or frequency]

maybe you should Mix it up ??
the hammer and the foot ??



PS Johan
50CC is the limit in most USA regions where a license is not required [or license plates and insurance]
to drive on Public streets [do to power limitations of such small displacement] .

they call them MoPeds ..pedals and a small motor.

I think this will change that ...Yikes

Now I have to ask a question [so I stay on topic here]

How fast will it go [or HP calcs??] ??..and does it resonate ? ..it has the most unusual exhaust pipe ??

it resonates with me 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zDmlOYiaTI 

[tinman]

Very simple MH
thank you for the analogy..
so to understand you ,, the foot is the path to understanding in your analogy of the cars top speed.

point and stomp [foot on gas]

so maybe with a similar analogy towards breaking the Glass[don't worry NZ the Wine is gone]

the hammer [or frequency]

maybe you should switch it up ??
the hammer and the foot ??

The point is (and one MH probably did not want to show),you cannot determine the top speed of a vehicle without having all the relevant information needed to make that determination..
The only way to find out what the top speed is,is to measure that speed while the car is traveling in the environment that the measurements are to be made in. MH missed relevant information needed to make that determination by any other means than to actually measure the top speed.

There is also the fact that it has nothing to do with resonance of a wine glass,unless we go to extremes,and try and mix/match things.
Top speed could be seen as maximum amplitude within the resonating wine glass.
Provided horse power could be seen as the external force acting upon the wine glass

The fact is Chet,the only way to determine the resonant frequency of a wine glass,where needed relevant information is missing,is to actually measure it. I (and others) have provided a means to do this,and MH laugh's at it. This is after he has provided inadequate information to determine a cars top speed,and also dismissed the fact that ICEs can have resonant systems that increase wanted output energy,while decreasing energy consumption.

There are also systems that do not need an energy source that oscillates at the natural resonant frequency of the energy receiver in order for that receiver to resonate . Aeroelastic flutter is one that comes to mind ,where the energy input can be without oscillation,but a smooth even flow of energy. There was some guys using this sort of resonant system to generate power--a different version of the wind generator. The good old gum leaf flute works on this principle.


Brad

[MileHigh]

Brad:

Here is what I said:  The answer is the maximum speed of the car is determined from where the maximum horsepower that can be output by the engine is in balance with all of the air friction and various other friction forces.

The only way to find the top speed of a motor vehicle that is operated within the environment it is to operate in ,and where all the other information is missing or incomplete, is to actually measure it under working conditions-as with the wine glass.

So how do we determine the top speed of the car ,when there is incomplete information that is needed to make such a determination--we actually measure the speed of the car ,in the environment it is to operate in.

The air friction and various other friction forces are also determined by the environment that the car is in.  My statement encompasses the effects of the environment.  My statement is correct and there is no missing information.

Do you understand as to why myself and smOKy say that all relevant information must be supplied in order to determine what the resonant frequency of the wine glass will be.

You can answer the question about the wine glass resonant frequency and provide all of the required relevant information yourself within your answer just like my answer about determining the top speed of the car provides all of the required information.  In both cases, the actual top speed and the actual resonant frequency is irrelevant and in both cases I didn't even ask for the numbers.

You are saying that relevant information is missing when in fact you can provide all of the relevant information in your answers.

That's all there is to it.  You are trying to challenge the questions and rewrite the questions.  What you should be doing instead is putting your thinking cap on and getting up the resonance learning curve so that you can answer both questions.

The questions are not going to change, and you are not going to rewrite either question.  Deal with the issues at face value and answer the questions if you can.

I will repeat:  You can supply all of the required information in your answers yourself.  The catch is that you have to understand resonance.

MileHigh