Joule Thief 101

[sm0ky2]

Brad:

Great, so you hacked the Joule Thief
MileHigh

what does that even MEAN?

[MileHigh]

Smoky2:

Don't make me laugh with all of the "cards" you are playing.  What you can't do is even describe a Joule Thief resonant mode beyond "fiddle with a pot and look for a sine wave."  Wow.  No kidding the "parameters haven't been defined."

What I have a hard time understanding, MH: is why you are so adamantly against such attempts to improve efficiency in this manner."

This must be about the 20th time that you have tried to play straw man with me and attempt to claim I said things that I didn't say.  It makes your argument beyond weak and you are too weak to ever have acknowledged that you are doing it.

this is simple signal processing

I will just repeat what I have said before, throwing around "big electronics words" that don't really mean anything tangible with respect to the humble Joule Thief does not add to the discussion at all.

You are left with saying this from what I can surmise:  "Trust me, if you can fiddle with a Joule Thief and find some kind of resonance I can't really define then you will get some kind of better efficiency that I can't really define."

You are making a lot of vague unproven claims about a Joule Thief.  Do you have a scope and a multimeter and a camera?  Why don't YOU demonstrate a Joule Thief in "resonance" instead of preaching about it?  I am not making any claims beyond what Magluvin has already shown and can be seen in many clips on YouTube and in many web links.  You are making claims that right now you can't deliver on.

So you entered this thread preaching "resonance 'magic'" and Brad entered this thread saying, "Oh, it's an RLC resonant circuit" and at this point what we can clearly see is that it's a device that energizes an inductor and then discharges that inductor through an LED where the operating frequency is based on two timing events; an L/R type energizing cycle and an L/R type discharge cycle though an LED.  "Resonance" and "RLC resonant circuit" have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a normal Joule Thief.

And why not get it right and discuss the reality of the Joule Thief?  Why do I do it?  Well, did you see the magic "resonant" flash light?  The "resonance magic" is quickly going away and it's apparent that it's just another "resonance con."  The "cult of resonance" on the free energy forums is always there and the tangible results are never there.  Why not actually evaluate a circuit with less than five components properly.  Why not?

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

"why" is more of a philosophical question. I could blame it on some not willing to read what was presented to them, others on their lack of equipment, while others still, because they missed some pertinent piece of information or data that induces unknown factors into their circuit. I did my best to describe each of these details from my own perspective, as well as from (my interpretation of) others perspectives whom also understand these principals, as have been presented.

Consider this:  Place a clamp + weight onto one side of your bell. Notice how this changes the resonance.
The waveform is destroyed.
you might only get a plink, or a ding.

Now, place other weights clamped to other places around the bell, and notice how this changes, not only the resonant frequency of the bell, but its ability to resonate.

I, unlike you, do not depend on the ability of others to succeed or fail in particular experiments, to formulate an already proven theory.
especially when the parameters of any single experiment have not even been defined.

what I will do, is offer the best help I can to walk them through making their particular JT, better.
locating and reducing the destructive interference in the system,
bringing resonances in the circuit closer to "in phase", so as to aid in constructive interference.

What I have a hard time understanding, MH:
is why you are so adamantly against such attempts to improve efficiency in this manner.
this is not a matter of me "proving" anything to you, this was proven 200 ago.
when it comes down to it, this is simple signal processing....

"what I will do, is offer the best help I can to walk them through making their particular JT, better.
locating and reducing the destructive interference in the system,
bringing resonances in the circuit closer to "in phase", so as to aid in constructive interference."

I can accept those terms.


"What I have a hard time understanding, MH:
is why you are so adamantly against such attempts to improve efficiency in this manner."

I have been trying to be social with mh lately. I used to feel the need to hammer the same thoughts that you have written above to him many times before. Im afraid we cant fix that. So I just stay off that battlefield because it takes toooo much time and thread space to just end up with what we see today. Its not only the constant insistence that an 'idea'(s) will not work, but topping it all off with degrading insults doesnt fare well with me either. I have written a few reply posts in the last couple weeks that once I reread and thought about it, I just deleted them instead of falling in a never ending dual that doesnt account for much but a couple of hot heads..      


Below is a scope shot that I produced last night. The battery was near fresh at 1.44v when I started. When I finally got to this point I let it set over night. At lunch today the batter showed a solid 1.46v.  But that could be due to many odd things. But it was nice to see.  Seems like a nice clean sine to me.

Here I had reverted back to my original transformer because the choke coil prewound with 2 windings wouldnt show a clean sine before it dies out. The only way I could come close to a sine with either transformer was to add the shorted winding. The original was better at it with these low inputs.

There isnt much range in which I can produce the clean sine before dying out. So I figure the best way around that is to up the input voltage. Will be doing that tonight. Got some various larger npn transistors to work with if the 3904 blows on me.

I need to get some pots with plastic casings and control shafts. The 100k Im using at the moment is the standard metal casing with split aluminum shaft that if I touch it it offsets tuning at these near 1mhz freq, even with a big rubber pipe end cap, if I touch the rubber the effect is still there.

Also, I did a check on the circuit without the led and it still operates. Not exactly the same freq. but still the same other than without the led there is no clamping of the spike.

Mags

[Magluvin]

Brad:

Here, I undertook to do a fairly complete annotation of Magluvin's scope capture that I requested.  That is an example of the WORK and the thinking and analyzing that is REQUIRED if you are going to understand how a circuit works.

Now, when you look at Magluvin's scope capture for the "rundown to 360 mv" capture, the full compliment of WORK has to be done to understand it.  I am assuming that he did not change the circuit when he took that capture.  He simply observed how the Joule Thief switched over to a completely different operating mode at the lower voltage.  I have not analyzed that and I have no intention of analyzing it.

The reason I am emphasizing the "WORK" angle is because this was your "explanation" for how your "Cool Joule" feedback oscillator circuit worked:  "Miller effect."

Your explanation for your "Cool Joule" circuit's operation is a joke.

Now, if you want to describe how a standard Joule Thief circuit works I am all ears.

MileHigh

The scope shot of the test points was with a fresher battery. Just noticed that I had the menu on with that shot as I was checking to see if the blue or yellow traces were inverted, and they were not. Happened to me before so I checked

Mags

[hoptoad]

snip....
You are not talking about one Joule Thief circuit, you are talking about five different Joule Thief circuits at the same time.
MileHigh

So you finally acknowledge there is more than one type of JT circuit.